Debunkers Prove Revelation 12 Sign
There have now been rebuttals of the Revelation 12 Sign by Joel Richardson, Danny Faulkner, Tim McHyde, Billy Crone, and now J.L. Robb from Omega Letter. We've been studying and teaching the Revelation 12 Sign since 2012 and after nearly five years this great sign has weathered every attack that could be thrown at it.
We addressed all of the rebuttals, point-by-point (see here, here, here, and here) and what we discovered in the process is that all of the arguments against the #REV12SIGN fall flat. J.L. Robb's arguments have finally proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this sign can't be disproven because his arguments are just more of the same:
1. The Revelation 12 Sign is astrology. Not only is this FALSE, but those suggesting this is astrology are now on the verge of breaking the ninth commandment - "You shall not bear false witness". Astrology is the worship of the sun, moon, and stars or using them for pagan practices like the horoscope. Studying biblical signs in the heavens that point to and give glory to God has nothing whatsoever to do with astrology (Genesis 1:14, Job 9:9, 38:32, Amos 5:8, Matthew 2:1-12, Luke 21:11, 25).
2. The September alignment is not unique. This is clearly FALSE. In fact, it is so false that it isn't even funny anymore to challenge these shallow rebuttals. Three separate studies have shown the complete uniqueness of this sign. It fits the description given in Revelation 12:1-2 and Isaiah 66:7 perfectly.
3. This is just another false prediction or date-setting. This is also FALSE, but I guess we will all have to wait patiently and see won't we? The sign is only three months away. For starters, everything stands or falls on its own evidence. Is that not obvious? "False predictions were made in the past therefore this prediction is also false" is not a coherent or logical argument. We've written extensively about how this sign and 2017 are on a whole different level than silly past predictions like the computer-glitch Y2K apocalypse, 2012 Mayan calendar mania, or 2015 Shemitah shenanigans. Considering how each of those not-even-remotely-biblical predictions had so much media coverage, isn't it interesting that this 2017 sign is being buried? Not only by the media, but by many misinformed folks in the Church. The only reason this is staying afloat in the Christian underground/rumor mill is because many noble Bereans have studied the sign with an open mind for themselves and independently confirmed it and are diligently teaching and learning from one another.
Revelation 12 Daily has a very thoughtful rebuttal of J.L. Robb's article.
So here is the factual bottom-line: on September 23rd in the Year of Our Lord 2017, an astronomical alignment occurs that perfectly and uniquely fits the description given by the Apostle John in Revelation 12:1-2. This hasn't happened before and won't happen again. You're only left with two options:
1. Believe that this alignment is purely coincidental and unimportant and God was trying to convey something else entirely in Revelation 12:1-2 that has nothing to do with what the text plainly and literally says.
2. Believe that there are no such things as coincidences.
With all that has been discovered lately, might the prophecy given in Daniel 12:9-10 be fulfilled?
He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand."
Daniel 12:9-10 appears to be REVERSED in Revelation 22:10:
Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near."
Please wake up.
Maranatha!
That picture is great!
ReplyDeleteDitto! a thousand dittoes, LOVE that picture !!! Jimboni
DeleteAlthough the Bible clearly talks about scoffers in the last days and that's what we're seeing with the Rev 12 sign, it's still crazy how many people just can't see the significance of this sign. It's one thing for non-believers to dismiss this sign, but for Christians and big-name pastors/preachers to dismiss this sign? Give me a break. God can't be any more clear.
ReplyDeleteFor the life of me, I can't see how we'll still be here after this September with the huge amount of convergences and dates lining up and signs in the heavens and so on. If we are, I'm sure a lot of us will be scratching our heads wondering what we missed or got wrong.
But I just don't see how it could go past September...
Amen to that.
DeleteIf you doubt this at all, there is an ebook that provides God's testimony to its truth.
DeleteEmail Pastor Bob at EvanTeachr@aol.com to receive a free, no-cost ebook "The Season of The Rapture: God's Three-Fold Witness!" It provides Biblical, geological, astronomical, physical evidence proving September 23, 2017 is the Day!
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAnonymous, Can you please add a link to this ebook. I would love to read it! I can only come up with "The season of the Rapture part 6" when I do a search for it.
DeleteI found it :). Here is the link to the entire "The Season of The Rapture" ebook in pdf format. http://www.nhunderground.com/jesus/PastorBob/The%20Season%20of%20the%20Rapture%20-%20Part%201%20CD%20Version.pdf
DeleteThe very people who are trying to debunk this Revelation are the ones I had thought of as main-stream died in the wool bible preachers. They are revealing themselves for what they are...the very wolves in sheep's clothing we were told to beware of! They are only concerned with selling their books! I replied as "anonymous" because I wasn't sure what to pick, but I'm not the same anonymous as the person I'm replying to. My name is Cheryl Staples, and I'm not afraid to say I believe we are going to see something wonderful happen very soon, if not on the very day of the sign in the heavens.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteBlood Red Moon,
DeleteI agree with you, I have the same thoughts on the validity of the Rev 12 Sign. I'm praying for our departure regularly, to come as soon as possible within the Lord's will.
Suzanne,
DeleteThanks for the link of the ebook! :)
@Blood Red Moon "If we get close to an annoucement of "Peace & Security" around FOT (before the sudden destruction), I will really begin to think our time is up and will be praying ceaselessly for our departure"
DeleteThe UN International Peace Day is Sept. 21, 2017 with this year's theme being "Peace and Security."
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteWhoa! This is from their own website!!! WHOA ON A JEWISH HOLIDAY AS IS THE PATTERN: Rosh Hashanah 2017 will begin in the evening of
DeleteWednesday
, September 20 (THE SUN SETS YOU’RE IN ROSH HASHANA)
and ends in the evening of (sundown)
Friday
September 22
THIS IS THE U.N. AND THEIR OFFICIAL HOLIDAY SET FOR
21 September (WHEN YOU’RE IN THE MIDDLE OF ROSH HASHANA) They have declared it
International Day of Peace
1 Thessalonians 5:3
3 For when they shall say, Peace and security; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
This link here leads you to read the article on the U.N. website (A/RES/36/67) (A/RES/55/282) http://www.un.org
Desiring to draw attention to the objectives of the International Day of Peace, and therefore to fix a date for its observance each year that is separate from the opening day of the regular sessions of the General Assembly, 1. Decides that, with effect from the fifty-seventh session of the General Assembly, the International Day of Peace shall be observed on 21 September each year, with this date to be brought to the attention of all people for the celebration and observance of peace; 2. Declares that the International Day of Peace shall henceforth be observed as a day of global ceasefire and non-violence, an invitation to all nations and people to honour a cessation of hostilities for the duration of the Day;
And look what comes after that!!!!!
26 September
International Day for the Total Elimination of Nuclear Weapons
This link here leads you to read the article on the U.N. website (A/RES/68/32) and this is what it say’s read it!!!!!!!!!!! Emphasizing the importance of seeking a safer world for all and achieving peace and security in a world without nuclear weapons,
http://www.un.org
What is this feast day right in the middle of the U.N.’s declared holiday for peace and security..
A new year: Rosh Hashanah.
BELOW IS WRITING FROM: AMERICAN JEWISH WORLD SERVICE (MAYIM BIALIK)
Rosh Hashanah has a dual identity. It is the anniversary of the creation of the world and, at the same time, also
a day of moral reckoning. This simultaneous celebration and reckoning is reflected in the Rosh Hashanah liturgy,
which says, “Today is the birthday of the world, today all of the world’s creatures stand in judgment.”
The fact that the anniversary of the birth of a perfect world is paired alongside an annual day of judgment for
our actions gives us the opportunity to examine how we have treated the world that has been entrusted to us.
In this way, we stand in judgment not only as individuals but as a society. Have we cared for the earth
responsibly or plundered it for profit? Have we strived to repair what is broken in this world or have we allowed
its glory to be polluted, consumed beyond its reach and stripped of resources?
As the entire world stands in judgment on this day, it is evident that, as a society, we have a lot to be judged for.
• Feast of Trumpets: September 21-22, 2017
That means the last trumpet will sound at sundown on the 22nd. Many Bible Many bible scholars believe the Rapture will occur during the feast of trumpets
Revelation 11:15-18
DeleteThe Last Trumpet Sounds
15-18 The seventh Angel trumpeted. A crescendo of voices in Heaven sang out,
The kingdom of the world is now
the Kingdom of our God and his Messiah!
He will rule forever and ever!
The Twenty-four Elders seated before God on their thrones fell to their knees, worshiped, and sang,
We thank you, O God, Sovereign-Strong,
WHO IS AND WHO WAS.
You took your great power
and took over—reigned!
The angry nations now
get a taste of your anger.
The time has come to judge the dead,
to reward your servants, all prophets and saints,
Reward small and great who fear your Name,
and destroy the destroyers of earth.
I am baffled every time I see these rebuttals. How hard would it be for the critics to say "You know what? Let's watch and see what happens in September, and let's make the most of our time between now and then. If the Lord comes back - great! If He doesn't then we've been serving Him and using our time wisely, and nothing is lost."
ReplyDeleteInstead we see people saying that students are committing a "serious sin" that in Old Testament times "came with a death penalty". As you point out, the poor debunking has only made it even more obvious that this sign is real.
I think one of the biggest problems the church has is that people seem to think that Jesus isn't going to come back anytime soon, and we have all the time in the world to live as we please. If we genuinely thought we only had a short time left then maybe we'd do more with our lives.
Rev 12 describes a sign that will seemingly happen Sept 23. Pursue God's kingdom between now and then with all your heart, and watch and see what happens in September. Jesus said to watch - so let's watch. Why so much outrage over a simple plea to watch, wait, and see?
AMEN! But Satan knows there's not much time left... That's the reason for all this outrage which is in fact HIS outrage. He knows that if he can't do any harm to the church he wants to give it the most possible trouble and confusion at least. Please note what Jesus promises to all inner-church Rev12-sign debunkers and scoffers (teachers, pastors who call themselves Christians etc.) in Matthew 24,51: that is HELL described as their destiny. Hard speech but true. MARANATHA!
DeleteIn light of your scathing comments about those nayayers, I can't help but wonder how you feel about them now Jon? Do you think a public apology might be in order?
DeleteI'm starting to think that two factors are at play here of why so many Christians are dismissing this sign - pride and fear of letting go of this life. Because some believers haven't discovered this sign themselves they are not embracing it - pride. Also, I believe some believers really don't want Jesus returning and give up their current life and comforts. Just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteYes that is what i see - people do not want to give up their current life. Jesus talked much about dying to this world. What here can compare to being with Jesus? The biggest care i see among believers is their over-love of family - the idolizing of children and grandchildren.
DeleteI seem to recall a guy who built a boat, told people about the coming flood, and managed to convince no one (except his immediate family). Should we expect different from this world. I remember another story about a man who came to this Earth, fulfilled 300+ prophecies, and only a handful of people believed him (the religious elite almost entirely rejected that man....sound familiar). My only hang up with the sign, September, et al is that I fear I'm going to be massively disappointed if something significant doesn't occur in the next 100-120 days (give or take a few). I actually am expecting something any day now, so there is a bit of anxiety because...I'm done, ready to go, had enough, turn out the lights, call in the dogs....however you want to say it, I'm ready to go.
ReplyDeleteGreg Lauer has a great article at alittlestrength.com about the sign....highly recommend as it sums it up without all the judgemental Pharisee/saducee condescension. Let's get the calendar moving!!!
Lance
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That adds perspective!
DeleteLance M. You speak out of my words. I already struggle 15 years with different kind of themes. Even a pastor in the army looked to me if I was crazy. Hold on people. God bless!
DeleteSide note....if there is one single person in the world that is expecting Jesus' return, does that mean He won't come that day? If so, I guess we should all stop looking (or at least not expect him)....maybe all of us expectors are what's keeping him from coming back. Sorry, I can be overly sarcastic from time to time. : )
ReplyDelete"Sorry, I can be overly sarcastic from time to time."
DeleteI feel your pain.
Yeah, Mr. D.L. Robb over at www.omegaletter.org...I saw his article a couple of days ago. Gary is right--same old song and dance. Nothing like being a day late and a dollar short.
It seems there are legions of people--GOOD people--who won't take the time to actually understand the sign, but will take their sweet time scoffing at it and mocking all those who embrace it.
Hmm...Robb's always been the one guy over at OL whose articles I almost never read. Now I know why. I only read *that* one because it was about the REV12 sign.
And I'm sorry I did.
As far as OL is concerned, Wendy Wipple--she's my gal.
Oops...I mean J.L. Robb.
DeleteI was sitting in a church one Sunday and As I heard the preachers sermon about being ready and over this life and how he wished for the rapture now. I thought how grate and terrible that day would truly be for those left behind. For if I was not ready and that day came, I know I would trade everything I had or know of for just one more day to get right with the lord. to have the time to plead with those I know to get right with the Lord. I know we should all live like we only have today and to be prepared to meet the Lord at any moment, for no one knows the hour of their own death. So many have been disappointed when an event doesn't play out as they had hoped for. I like to think that God loves us so much that he listens to everyone's prayers.
DeleteSo if the rapture doesn't happen then, that's ok, it just gives me more time to work on the stubborn and hard harted.
@Stephen @LanceM = AMEN guys! Much love, hold on yet a little while... (Hebrews 10,37) ;-) and compare Luke 18,8b) = rhethorical question! // Luke 17,32 REMEMBER LOTS WIFE. I'm done too. Don't forget to clear the fridge. LOL :D MARANATHA 9/21/17 Feast of Trumpets, see you in New Jerusalem! Up up and away! https://youtu.be/5akEgsZSfhg
ReplyDeleteAnnabel,
DeleteGood verses! Definitely not sticking up the freezer or fridge....we gotta be close!!!
I won't even buy green bananas right now!
DeleteBlessings Raoul, You must be watching JD Farag - I love watching him! LOL!!!
DeleteThe rapture is SO close that mothers stopped telling their children to wear clean underwear in case they were involved in an accident. They are now telling their children to wear clean underwear because the rapture might occur today! ;-)
Lance M,
ReplyDeleteI’m with you too! That’s how I feel most of the time; I’d really like to go!
IN CASE nothing significant happens at the 20th-23th of September… I’d like to add some encouragement. I listened to a teaching recently, and the pastor added the possibility that in case our rapture will truly parallel how it was for Noah and his family back then, he explained that it could mean that counting it from the FoT date this year, we might get a 40 days waiting period the same way as Noah’s ark was open for 40 days, that means a waiting period until the 30th of October (if my memory serves me right about that) after the 40th day passed the ark’s door was shut and the rain started to fall 7 days later, that would be on the 6th of November.
Also, I think Amir Tsarfati (of Behold Israel) is right about assuming that we’re in the season of the “Feast of Trumpets”. He said that based on what he read in the Book of Numbers, how it was instructed in Mozes’ time that 2 silver trumpets must be made… he was thinking on that and the Holy Spirit lead him to the interpretation why it was “trumpets”- because the connection to the FoT, why silver- because it is noble but NOT perfect (like gold) and why two instruments- it’s because those 2 trumpets represented two groups of people: Israel and the Church! We are in high esteem in the Lord’s eyes but not perfect (silver) and both of us are like trumpets aka the Lord’s warning instruments to the whole world! Since the modern state of Israel was born in 1948, it’s the time since both trumpets, Israel and the Church are existing simultaneously on the Earth fulfilling the requirement of the 2 silver trumpets in the Book of Numbers, so these days since 1948 are “the times of the FoT” according to Amir’s interpretation. The other pastor I mentioned before also said that while the Lord said about His return that “nobody knows the day and the hour” which could be a direct reference to the Feast of Trumpets, it could still have a DOUBLE meaning, meaning that the rapture could happen really at any time as we near the cusp of the 70th week, not necessarily at the FoT. I think both of these views and possible interpretations (and speculation concerning the parallel with the days of Noah) fit Greg L.,’s study on the Rev 12 Sign being EXIT SIGN which accelerates the importance of imminency.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteBlood Red Moon you're so right. FOT 2017 is it. It has to be. And I don't mean that in a way that puts any obligation to God but just look at ALLLLLLL the numbers and prophecies surrounding Israel and all these "coincidences" from the secular world and the fact that the EXACT alignment of Revelation 12 occurs ON THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS in the year 2017 following the pattern of 1897 1917 1947 1967.
DeleteGod seems to be screaming at us. I believe the blood moon tetrad of 2014-2015 was not only a two year warning to Israel for the tribulation, but I believe it has a dual-purpose in that it got all of us looking up and realizing that God uses the Sun, Moon and stars for signs and appointed times. So for the last 5 or so years we've all been looking to the heavens and have seen the Revelation 12 sign years out. (Thanks Scottie!)
It's getting to the point more and more everyday as we get closer to September 23 that we cannot deny the significance of this thing. We can't. Is the rapture to occur on the very day of the 23rd? It appears so but there's a strong possibility that anywhere from the 21st-23rd it could happen.
Jupiter does exit the womb around 2 weeks (9/14 I think) before the 23rd meaning the birth happens before the labor so I wonder if 9/14 could be a candidate date of the rapture because the birth=rapture and since Jupiter is actually "born" on 9/14 maybe that's when the Church gets raptured and the devil is caught unawares because he had no "labor signs" to give him warning. But I still lean mostly towards FOT because it happens at the last trump. I don't know... just thinking out loud on that one.
But regardless, September of 2017 seems far too perfect for the rapture to happen on any future year. And when you consider that it's exactly 70 years since Israel was voted to become a nation in 1947 and that "this generation would not pass till all this be fulfilled" - I think this is it. And I would venture to say that even though most won't go out and say the rapture will be this September, you're believing in your hearts that it will indeed happen this year.
We're going home. soon.
Blood Red Moon and Anonymous,
DeleteAbout the “last trumpet”, that’s the reason I mentioned Amir’s teaching where he talked about the “season of the Feast of Trumpets” that started with the Lord’s two silver trumpet: Israel and the Church existing in the same “place and time”. I think “the last trumpet” could mean the time when the fullness of the gentiles had come in and the rapture indeed happens but I’m not sticking to that rigidly, I mean, the rapture could happen like that, any day from now or at the actual Feast of Trumpets. I also hope that it will happen in 2017! The same guy, Amir said at the start of this year (in a prophecy update, I think it was his last prophecy update in 2016, on new year’s eve, I just watched it a bit later) so he said that the Lord very strongly put it on his heart that the Church should be told to prepare for the rapture and we should ASK the Lord to come back for us and take us home! The Holy Spirit led him to that verse concerning this, “The Spirit and the Bride say, Come!” (Rev 22:17) He also said in another teaching at a Christian conference maybe 2 months ago that he gets LOTS of emails from believers living all around the world writing that the Lord told them (many times audibly) that He’ll come soon! I find big encouragement in all of that.
Deletep.s.: Also, there's the 2017-2024 Tribulation period theory. There are possible signs that perhaps point to 2024 as the final year of the Tribulation and allegedly another solar eclipse will "wander through" America in 2024 in the opposite direction (if I know that right) "making an "x" with the one this year.
@ Nora: dear sister look here and urgently read the script from p. 36 on you will understand so much more: https://rev12daily.blogspot.de/2017/06/day-nor-hour-date-setting-and-feast-of.html?m=1 (I made some comments on this in the post itself) everything fits perfectly. Please don't forget about 1 Corinthians 15,52 the ultimate hint to how Gods calendar and clock works. It MUST be on FoT exact, not any day or period after. MARANATHA dear, Blessings to you!
DeleteAnnabel,
DeleteI read those parts of the book starting on the 31th page. It is truly something, very interesting and eye opening! I have only one problem with that study. Perhaps I misunderstood the author. In case I didn’t misunderstand him, he says that -based on the biblical example of the Jewish priests- those who are not watching and passing certain standards being ready, despite being born again believers inside the Church, will be “kicked out” and left behind! Again, I could be wrong but to me that is what the author of that book seems to say, admitting that before this he had thought that only “unbelievers in the Church” were affected. Based on what I’ve learned through all the encouraging Bible verses about our eternal security in Christ I can’t reconcile that. That would take away all the hope and joy of waiting for the rapture, replacing it with fear if we’ll be prepared enough/good enough to be raptured. I think many people who believe in the pre-trib rapture are struggling with worries like that time to time already. (Also, I don’t know what to think -yet-about the mention of the author’s friend who is –according to the author- allegedly right about the 10-11 years between the rapture and the Second Coming.)
Nora, I heard from the Lord audibly around last September "it won't be long now". It was something that has never happened to me before or since. I just now put the timing of the month I heard it together with our possible month of departure!
DeleteAnonymous,
DeleteLet's hope! And let's pray and ask the Lord to return for us as soon as possible according to His will! I heard that believers around the world are reporting that they heard from the Lord (many times audibly) that He's returning for us soon!
Nora,
ReplyDeleteAgreed....I just can't see us going into 2018. I'm preparing myself for going past September, but I also think it is very plausible that something could happen today. Regardless, we HAVE to be so close!
The exit sign analogy is a good one. I started thinking that a highway exit sign is only effective when you actually get to it....meaning we would have to get tot the physical date of the Rev 12 sign. However, the sign is in the sky, and we can see it now (not in its full completion obviously), but IMO it is already serving its purpose. I don't think we necessarily have to wait till 9/23 before events could potentially happen.
Lance M.,
DeleteMostly that’s the way I think about these things too. I see the Rev 12 Sign as a possible “two-direction” Sign that could point back to our rapture and forward for the Tribulation period. It’s a sign for the Church that the rapture is near and a sign for Israel and World that the Tribulation is near.
What was interesting is that the pastor who talked about the possible Noah parallel also said that 2017 has so many significant prophetic connections that in his opinion something HAS TO happen and he could absolutely imagine a 2017 rapture as well. I’m very careful when it comes to things like this but I found it interesting when he talked about the exact timing of the start of the flood mentioned in Genesis 7:11 saying, “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.” Noah’s six hundredth year paralleling the end of the 6000th year of humanity (the 7000th year being the Millennial Kingdom), the second month paralleling the 2000th year (of the Church age, aka the “the 2 days of the Lord to Whom 1000 years is like 1 day, and the prophetic significance of the 3rd day mentioned in the Bible for ex. He will rebuild David’s fallen tent on the 3rd day) and the 17th day in that Genesis passage paralleling the 17th year passing the 2000th year now (aka 2017). According to this pastor, that could be a hint from the Lord when will His second world-wide judgment (the first being the Flood) start as well. Even so, I’m very cautious, so I put this in the pure speculation category.
@ Anonymous: I am right with you here. Me too I think God could not scream any louder now... LOL :D Do you know the "Gimme a sign!" scene from the movie 'Bruce Almighty'? Just like that. Blessings to you!
Delete@ Lance M: You mentioned anxiety if nothing special now happens until September. If we take the "days of Noah and Lot" literally equal in quality compared to today (what we do according to scriptures) please note that people around us will remain totally unaware and unrepentant. Despite all signs and 'birth pangs' from natural and social disasters. Cataclysm will happen "suddenly" (1 Thess 5,3) in very surprise. The church still works as a restrainer to that, we have to be out of the way first. I feel a lot like you do; God even pulled me out from workplace now in time and cut me off from the world without sharing the gospel any longer so I do sometimes see no real sense to stay and just wait for Him staying holy (I am already in the ark, 7 days prior to the flood. Just doing some purchase now and then but life is quite boring now for me). I take this as the last big personal trial to cope with on earth: ENDURANCE / PERSEVERANCE / PATIENCE ('hupomone' in Greek) in faith. There are so much verses on this "patience" I cannot quote them all here. Its the last lesson to learn before leaving. I guess there will be more birth pangs increasing and getting more intense but we have to be gone first for the "big bang" to the world I think. I just cannot imagine any other (later) year for FoT fitting perfectly in the scenery than 2017. Endurance will get really tough around July/August I guess. It already gets harder, the sun is getting hotter too, hard weather conditions. Hold on, stay cool inside if you can and fear not! ;-)
I'm sad to say we can add Amir Tsarfati to the list of mockers and scoffers of the Revelation 12 sign.
ReplyDeleteI found his talk on what we believe to be quite disgusting to be honest. It's very obvious to me that they who mock or deride the sign, do not believe that part of the bible that say's there will be signs in the heavens. They pick out certain verses that support their position and ignore the ones that might suggest otherwise. They are so sure that we are wrong that they will not take the time to even look at what the evidence is.
They have no idea what we believe about the sign. Or the amount of time, energy and prayer that have gone into trying to understand, if and what it is that God is trying to communicate to us. I have yet to see one detractor explain what we believe with any accuracy. Mockery is not an argument!
The good news is we may not have to endure this too much longer! When one looks at all the evidence, it's not unreasonable to expect the catching away of the saints sometime on the Feast of Trumpets this September. There has never been a Feast of Trumpets like this one!
But, just in case we're still here, I bought tickets for a Chris Tomlin Concert on October 13, 2017. On the floor, ten rows back, front stage! I'm hoping to be praising God in heaven, but if not, I'll still be singing his praises here on earth!
Just remember no matter what happens, God is in control!
For the brave: here's the video, 22 min mark:
https://youtu.be/U3jSbs-Dofg?t=1320
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteBRM, Likewise, I was very disappointed when I heard of Amir's dismissal of the Rev 12 sign. I work, in my Spirit, to assign such things to the Sovereignty of the Almighty, who will and who won't 'see' it, but Amir's loyalty to the Word and his spiritual/intellectual curiosity were shown to be far below what I would have hoped. -- Jimboni
DeleteSad to hear that about Amir. I think we all need to keep in mind that there are *MANY* genuinely good people out there--solid born-again believers who are truly our brothers and sisters in Christ--who simply don't get and will never get the REV12 sign. Oh well...it's their loss.
ReplyDeleteI especially need to learn this, because I have one of the quickest trigger fingers in town when it comes to people who have no clue what they are talking about, yet will mock the REV12 sign and those who embrace as if we were a gaggle of Harold Camping dropouts who had decided to take up divination in our spare time.
There's not much you can say to them...except "See ya there."
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteGreg L.,
Delete“Sad to hear that about Amir. I think we all need to keep in mind that there are *MANY* genuinely good people out there--solid born-again believers who are truly our brothers and sisters in Christ--who simply don't get and will never get the REV12 sign. Oh well...it's their loss.”
Thank you for NOT saying that these people will be let behind! I’m getting emotionally tired of bumping into this view regularly that if you’re caught unaware and “not being prepared enough” for the rapture you will be left behind!
As for Amir, I knew that he dismissed the Rev 12 Sign but I was sad to hear some of the things he said. I don’t know why it is automatically assumed that just because we think a certain time is near when there could be a higher possibility for the rapture to happen, we’ll surely “GO TO PARTY” until the LAST minute!!! Instead of having the attitude of the URGENCY of imminency!!! (“And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.” 1 John 3:3) To me, the nearness of the rapture gives LOTS of refreshment and helps a lot to renew my attitudes and my mind! Also, what about immature Christians who haven’t left the “baby stage” or “toddler stage” or “(little) child stage” yet? They could still have certain parts of the world in their hold but it doesn’t mean that they don’t have the Holy Spirit in them! I’d be very careful not to rush to judgment on others Christians! Also, no matter how *mature* a Christian gets; they still should depend on the Lord’s mercy and love and His accomplished work on their behalf! The same way they were dependent on Him in the first seconds and minutes of their new life! The amount of our dependency on the Lord should be constant.
p.s.: Pre-trib believers having the view that Christians need the constant “threat” of the any-time rapture otherwise they “won’t behave themselves” should reconsider that view. (Amir seemed to demonstrate that view too.) Also, I know Christian brethren who are dear to me and who cling to certain parts of the world. But I’d never automatically assume that they aren’t saved because of that. And I certainly wouldn’t go to them and tell them, “Buddy, I doubt that you are saved because you like this or that and/or you do this or that! You should be seriously worried!” Firstly and most importantly, I’d always wait for the leading and prompting of the Holy Spirit before confronting someone on any issue, secondly there’s a very big difference between correcting a person in a wise, loving way and judging their spiritual state asap. Even when “we’re yanking unbelievers out of the fire”, even that should be under the strict guidance of the Holy Spirit! Lastly, I think every one of us is prone to be attached to certain things in different degrees; it’s not a thing that only “totally-worldly” Christians are doing. Every one of us is having a sin nature so we all need “team work with the Holy Spirit” in our own lives; nobody should think that they’re “better”, more “holy” or more righteous than their brethren. We’re all having imputed righteousness in Christ.
Delete@ Nora dear sister: mentioning "baby Christians" who don't care about Rev12-sign or are simply ignorant about because nobody told them yet: Please watch the latest video of BARRY SCARBROUGH youtube channel and the "Ten virgins / Rapture ready works"! You must know that EVERYTHING about salvation is GODS GRACE and nothing else! So, if there are some who don't know about Rev12-sign and don't watch but are saved by Christ for sure they certainly will be with us in the rapture! Matthew24,48-51 is about the mockers and debunkers, the evil servants, not about lazy but saved baby Christians. So don't worry! Much love, MARANATHA
DeleteAnnabel,
DeleteMany of the mockers and the debunkers are saved, born again Christians! They might have errors in their ways, their attitude and thinking but they are saved nonetheless! They will go with the rest of us in the rapture. Those (born again Christians) who mocked the very concept of the rapture for ex., will probably spend some embarrassing moments in the presence of the Lord right after the rapture but I refuse to go any further than this and say that they will be left behind because I believe so that ALL the qualification you need for the rapture is being saved by faith through grace in Christ! The evil servant in the parable represents unbelievers, not saved Christians who all belong to the Lord! I wrote about my point of view on the Olivet Discourse parables in the comments-section of the “Parable of the 10 Virgins” post. I also described there all my thoughts on what makes us rapture-worthy (which I briefly repeated here above) quoting the Bible verses which are the ground for my point of view on all of that. I wouldn’t like to repeat all these things, please check my comments in the comments-section in Gary’s post on the parable of the ten virgins! Also, I wouldn’t like to go into a debate on this topic again, I’m standing by all what I said before.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletep.s.: Annabel,
DeleteDon’t get me wrong please but I really wouldn’t like to go into an argument concerning the topic of rapture-worthiness. I think I said all that I could on this topic in my previous comments. I think the best thing is to pray constantly for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in all things and ask discernment from God, I’ll continue to pray concerning this topic and many others. Lord bless!
Dear Nora, I think we both fully agree on salvation by grace only. That's why I recommended Barrys video to you. I am not so sure like you if there are indeed so many "saved mockers" as you think. For 2 reasons: a) if you're saved you have the Holy Spirit to lead and instruct
Deleteand convince you from truth. A mocker doesn't search for nor want to accept truth. b) Matthew 24,48-51 speaks of "servants" = people who claim themselves Christians and are not country to the unbelievers but inside the church, they make part of the unsaved tare. They end up in hell for their mockery and treatment of the other servants in church (v.51 describes hell and no other place). Of course the LORD knows who is His but if the Holy Spirit works in a true believer he will at least be convinced by the Spirit and the word of God and will stop mocking Rev12-sign if he did at first and NOT continuing. Blessings to you, much love!
Annabel,
DeleteAs I’ve mentioned before (in my comments of Gary’s post about the parable of the 10 virgins) I believe so that all the Olivet Discourse parables including the parables of the faithful and evil servants, the 10 virgins and the parable of the talents are in one unit with the Lord’s description of the Sheep and Goat judgments which is clearly about the Tribulation survivors. Therefore, I believe so that the Olivet Discourse parables are also about the people in the Tribulation and not about us, the Church. Also, I still believe that the “evil servants” of the parables aren’t saved, born again persons. “Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground.” (Matthew 25:24) These words give enough proof to me to conclude that no saved person indwelt by the Holy Spirit would think like that about Jesus. It is the Lord’s love and mercy that drew and brought us to Him.
Good teachings I could recommend on the Olivet Discourse Parables:
https://gracethrufaith.com/?s=olivet+discourse
@ Nora dear sister you are right, the "evil servants" from Matthew 25 as well ends up in hell, he is not saved (v. 30). But please do allow me a question: how do you read PARABLES in the bible? Do you really tie them to a certain period of time or dispensaations? A parable is given to show a certain GENERAL ASPECT of "the kingdom of heaven IS LIKE..." (Matthew 13 / 18 / 20 / 22) but it does not show the time when this happens. Therefore it is a PARABLE.
DeleteAnnabel,
Delete"but it does not show the time when this happens" I don't agree. I think it shows the time and we can concclude which group of people the parables are about. I've just reasoned about it in my previous reply to you. Please, when you have the time check out the studies I linked about these parables!
@ Nora - please don't get me wrong but I checked out gracethrufaith.com and this teacher Jack Kelley you probably mean. I don't think he has good discernment of things because he confounds actually endtimes description (= tied to time and season) with the parables imbedded (= not tied to time and season). In fact, he jumbles up the whole chapter 24-25 of Matthew without proving neither original language nor any parallel quoted in the other gospels or in OT. His teachings do rather confuse me than shed more light on the passages given. It has always been an indicator to me that somebody goes wrong if he confounds scripture without giving evidence. God has always led me into more and deeper understanding of some topic instead of less or even confusing me. I will not follow Jack Kelleys teachings as I also found some strange news about him here, regarding other teaching topic he might not have understood well himself:
Deletehttp://the-end-time.blogspot.de/2015/07/discernment-lesson-jack-kelley.html?m=1
I am sorry but your link to these teachings on the Olivet Discourse wasn't helpful to me this time. Nevertheless, much regards until next time! Bless you dear ;-)
Hey friends, regarding Jack Kelley. His eschatology seems pretty solid and I've read many of his articles. I don't agree with him on everything, but he pretty much sums up the dispensational view espoused by many conservative Evangelical seminaries. He also gets it where it counts - grace. That "Discernment Lesson: Jack Kelley" article concerns me because it seems to contain both accurate statements and some false accusations. For example, by no measure is Billy Graham a Catholic-compromising universalist. That's just absurd. People could probably go and dig and find things I myself said ten or twenty years ago and make me sound like a jihadi ISIS member. Words are easily twisted. But Billy, Franklin, and Ann have all very consistently preached the Gospel of grace through faith and have unquestionably disavowed universalism.
DeleteRegarding saved mockers, I would bet there will definitely be some, but its not for us to know. Romans 10:6-7 gives us the principle that only God knows who is truly saved. We can only speculate. In 1 Corinthians 3:15 we learn that many saved Believers will suffer loss - not of salvation, but of awards. I suppose there will be many prophecy teachers who are expecting to receive the crown of righteousness (2 Tim 4:8), but instead will suffer loss knowing that when they mocked this sign they forfeited any rewards associated with watching for the Lord's return and preparing the Church.
Just my 2 cents.
Btw, I think you both have salient points and are basically saying the same things, just differing on a few details.
We are all grateful for the free gift of pardon through the blood of Christ.
"On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand."
"No other fount I know, nothing but the blood of Jesus."
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAnnabel,
DeleteAs Gary said, “He also gets it where it counts - grace.” Exactly! I consider him a good Bible teacher, one of my favorites but that’s my opinion, I wouldn’t like to force it on anyone. The most important thing I’d like to say is that basically we don’t need much explanation (from anyone) to understand what the Olivet Discourse is about because it is absolutely clear: it is about the time of Jesus’ Second Coming and what closely surrounds it. In fact, Matthew 24 and 25 are strictly about the time of the Tribulation and His Second Coming. Logic tells me that so are the parables described within these two chapters! (Therefore the parables aren’t about the Church but about the people of the Tribulation). The topic of the Olivet Discourse is set right at the start. My view is the same on this topic and on the topic of the believer’s eternal security in Christ.
p.s.: By "same" I mean unchanged.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletep.p.s.: Annabel,
DeleteOne last thing concerning that article you linked about Jack Kelley. In my experience, it is mostly people who hold onto the view of conditional salvation (aka *you must participate in keeping your own salvation*) and people having a basic misunderstanding about what it truly means *to be saved by the Lord’s grace through faith*; these people like to use the expression “easy grace” criticizing or condemning people who hold the view of eternal security (*once saved always saved*).
As if all the fireworks we know about weren't enough...
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard about this?! I just stumbled across this item--I don't even remember how--and I did a double take that almost fractured my C3 vertebra. I wasn't sure where to post it, but I figure this is as good a place as any:
Apparently, there is what is known as a "contact binary star" in the constellation Cygnus that goes by the catchy moniker of KIC 9832227 (about 1800 light-years away), and it has been under close observation for a number of years now. Astronomers are saying it is just about ready to go supernova, and the current estimate of when this might occur is between September 2021 and September 2022 (although some astronomers question the degree of accuracy of that estimate). There is general agreement among astronomers, however, that whenever it *does* go supernova, it's gonna be a real doozy. They are saying it will likely be visible *DURING THE DAY* for several weeks.
That *klunk* you just heard was my jaw hitting the floor. =8o
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIC_9832227
Wow! That would be roughly mid-trib.
DeleteThe scriptures proclaim that every matter must be established by two or three witnesses (Deuteronomy 19:15 and Matthew 18:16) Interestingly, the scriptures even confirm this "legal standard" through two witnesses, Moses and Christ!
DeleteLeading up to the day this great sign takes place are many witnesses. For example, on November 20th, 2016, at twilight, Jupiter entered the "womb" of Virgo. You can watch this take place before your eyes through the Stellarium software. November 20th, was on a Sunday. Here is what is amazing...it is the Torah reading for the Sabbath that ended on November 19th, the day before Virgo becomes "pregnant" on November 20th. Torah verses are Genesis 18:1--22:24.
Included in these verses we read where the Lord told Abraham that Sarah was to become pregnant, and that "I will return to you next year at the proper time and Sarah shall have a son." (Genesis 18:14)
It is no coincidence that at the very time Virgo becomes "pregnant" with Jupiter, that the Torah reading is about Sarah becoming pregnant with the child of promise, and The Lord will return next year! And when is next year?...Well, Virgo is going to "birth" the king planet Jupiter on September 9th, a Sabbath. And what is the Torah reading for that Sabbath? Deuteronomy 26:1--29:8. And what do we read?...It is God explaining to Moses about First Fruits (Deut. 26:2) And we read in 1 Corinthians 15:20, that "Christ is the first fruits of those who sleep." These Torah readings that confirm a pregnancy on November 20th, and then confirm a birth (first fruits) on September 9th, are not coincidences.
Then we have the total solar eclipse on August 21st, 2017! And what day is this? It is Rosh Chodesh Elul...the exact day Moses ascended Mt. Sinai for the second time to receive the 10 Commandments. But just as important, this begins 40 days of repentance for the nation, that ends on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur).
And this eclipse is only going to effect the United States as it "splits" America in half from Oregon to South Carolina. NASA makes a point that the sun is going to rise in darkness. This is a sign the day of the Lord is "near" and "coming" (Isaiah 13:6-10)
These are just a few of the witnesses. We have not even covered the incredible verses of the Torah reading for the day of the great sign on September 23rd. And we have really just skimmed the surface of the fullness of the Torah readings for November 20, August 21, and September 9. These are no coincidences! This is indeed a great sign.
(But I must end by warning, this sign is about the dragon and about God's plan to protect His people. There will be a door opened, and we must recognize the open door. You must walk through a door. You must recognize the open door and know you have to make a conscious decision to go through His open door. He says He is going to close the door and once that happens, no man will be able to open it)
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@anonymous:
Delete"There will be a door opened..."
John 10:9
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
Lance
Lance M.,
DeleteAmen! And praise the Lord, what Anonymous wrote about the Torah passages for these significant days are amazing!
I haven't heard anyone posit this regarding WHEN the kingdom would be set up. There were no clocks back then. Jesus could have taken the rest of his life trying to explain the use of one and then what to wait for. The only time (Day, Month, Year) was an hour glass or a sun dial OR THE STARS, MOON, AND SUN. I don't know if they had named the days of the week back then. Just something to think about.
ReplyDeleteAnother Omega Letter commentator, Pete Garcia, addresses 9/23/17, and makes reference to Scotty Clarke and this website:
ReplyDeletehttp://omegaletter.com/articles/articles.asp?ArticleID=8461
Superb article, thank you for sharing it Bruce! I really like what he wrote about the "circular firing squad routine"!
DeleteFirst, to say Virgo is not "clothed with the sun" because the sun is above her shoulders and not at her mid-section is absurd. So, they are saying Virgo should have the sun at her mid-section as if she has a towel wrapped around her waist? Really? Those who are making such an absurd "argument" need to read what God says about this..."Covering thyself with light as with a cloak.." (Psalm 104:2) And where does One place a cloak?...the answer is that a cloak is draped over your shoulders, not wrapped around your waist!
ReplyDeleteAnd then, to claim that Coma Berenices is the crown of Virgo is another absurd and incoherent argument. Coma Berenices is above Virgo's torso and moves through the sky always over her "tummy"! Since when does one wear a crown on your stomach? However, not only is Leo the only constellation directly above the head of Virgo, but it has by most accounts, consisted of nine (9) stars: The Sickle (6 stars) Epsilon Leonis, Mu Leonis, Zeta Leonis, Gamma Leonis, Eta Leonis, Alpha(Regulas)Leonis..The Tail (1 star) Beta Leonis..Rest of the Body (2 stars) Delta Leonis and Theta Leonis. You can actually find Leo in the night sky at the right times of the year by seeing clearly these 9 stars.
I will re-post my response on a similar thread over at Revelation 12 Daily blog as it communicates what I long to share with my Rev 12 club mates. The LORD has orchestrated EVERYTHING about this time. Why He has chosen it to be this way, with so many in His body not seeing the obvious, we can debate for a while but I think, on or about 9/21-23, or perhaps even a bit prior, we will KNOW as surely as we will be KNOWN and our debate will be OVER :) PTL! Maranatha!
ReplyDeleteIn wrestling with the Spirit over this dynamic, He has whispered to me, "The Lord has ordained that it be so..." To all us watchers of 9/23/17 I say be thankful that the Lord chose YOU to see this and be gracious to those whose eyes He has not chosen to open to this Revelation. Salvation cannot be forced upon someone through logic, argument and debate and no other spiritual Truth can be delivered that way, either. Though an elephant be the largest thing in the room, the blind man will never see him. Apply the following verse to the Spirit "of Revelation" for insight to this dynamic (...and CANNOT understand them...): --- "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." (1 Cor 2:14 NIV)-- Jimboni
Jimboni, this is exactly how I feel about Rev 12 sign. I thank the Lord he gave me the opportunity to see this and what is unfolding!
DeleteSome Good news!
ReplyDeleteOn Jan Markell's website:
https://www.olivetreeviews.org/news/headlines/item/12939-move-out-draw-fire
George,
DeleteHmmm....interestIng. Pete's article did a great job of hopefully making some "tap the brakes" a bit. It will be interesting to see how Rev 12 is handled as we get closer to the 9/23 date. If those of us that are watching this sign are correct that something major happens, I'm praying for many Saul to Paul awakenings among our brothers/sisters. Of course, if we're right & this sign heralds dispensational change, then it won't matter because we'll all be together, whether or not we see this as the Rev 12 sign. I feel it necessary to say once again....I'm not saying the rapture is going to happen on that date. It could happen right now, or any day within whatever amount of time we have left (I may make that my auto-sig going forward???)
Lance
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThat's very interesting.....seems to tidy things up a bit!
DeleteBlood Red Moon, The -3914-8-4/5 (Stellarium) sign is amazing! And you are correct. The sign is a birth sign. Before they sinned Adam and Eve would have lived forever on the earth that they were on. That can't be this earth because this earth is going to be clean dissolved Isa 24:19. We the (good) seed of the woman will live forever on the new earth. It is amazing because Saturn (Satan) was in the garden and contributed to man's fall. So -3914 was the sign of man's birth into this corrupt earth. So it must be that 9/23/2017 is the birth sign into the new earth.
DeleteThe religious leaders of Jesus' day failed to recognize the evidence of His first coming. Is it really surprising that modern religious leaders may miss signs of His 2nd advent?
ReplyDeleteWill Unsealed retract all the Sept 23 prognostication if nothing happens? Just want to know, I'm not a debunker, just one who has seen 100% failed predictions. There seems to be a reckless abandon to accept this concept point blank by Scottie boy, who has never been right btw...What spiritual damage if the zealots are wrong, will you own it?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI'm all about watch dates. To me, especially now if the day ends in "Y" it's a watch date. But when the title of the blog is "Debunkers Prove Revelation 12 Sign", it's that word "prove" in it. There is yet another frenzy in play and every time, there is a price. Be sober comes to mind.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteNothing is "proven" until Sept 24th in regards to the rapture, and if your honest the majority of content on this topic IS about the rapture, not just a sign whether legit or not.
DeleteAnd the reason you say I'm "mock" is what exactly? Have you already definitively associated Sept 23 to Rev 12? So what am I guilty of in your mind, mocking Rev 12 or questioning a theory?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI hear your concern and I appreciate you sharing it.
DeleteTo be clear, I firmly believe that the alignment on 9/23 is the sign John saw in Revelation 12:1-2. That much I'm predicting. You're right to say we've spent a lot of time connecting this to the rapture, but I've also been clear in a variety of articles that I don't know for sure the day or hour and that signs don't always happen right when an event happens.
So if nothing happens and 9/25 rolls around I will still stand by my view that the sign John saw in Revelation 12:1-2 was fulfilled - that is until someone provides a better explanation for Revelation 12:1-2.
And I'm not a debunker. I'm just saying I don't know, you dont' know, Scottie doesn't know. Your title states that it's proven by debunkers, I'm saying there is no proof. There's no proof that Revelation is not a sequential book of events. If it is, Sept 23 cannot be Rev 12, we're still in Rev 3.
DeleteI don't know, brother. I've spent several years researching this nearly every day and the evidence seems pretty compelling to me and many dozens, hundreds, even thousands of others. The alignment on 9/23 fits the description in Revelation 12:1-2. That part is a fact. It just is. Now that doesn't prove that it is the Sign spoken of in Revelation, but it should at least get out attention.
DeleteEither it's an incredible coincidence whose timing even fits with all of the other signs going on around us, or it is the genuine article.
Regarding Revelation, from my own studies I see there is actually a pretty good scholarly consensus that Revelation is not purely chronological. It has a general flow, but there's more to it than a simple timeline of events. It pulls heavily from the book of Isaiah and Isaiah is without a doubt not chronological.
Even more - Revelation has a clear chiastic structure, a well known fact among Bible scholars:
https://creationconcept.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/rev-chiasm1.png
Thanks for clarifying that. I tend to think it is sequential, but you could be right. I think alot of seasoned watchers, for good reason, are saying pump the brakes in regards to this being the trigger to the rapture because that is the natural progression and we've seen tragic results from new believers within and scoffers without. Either way, we can agree the sand is running low. Blessings.
DeleteWhat if the Jews are right, and Jesus wasn't the messiah?
ReplyDeleteIf so, every book in the New Testament is hogwash, and we're just looking at, at worst, the Jewish day of judgement.
I'm still confused why people want to live in a place with a God that is only willing to save 0.0000192% of humanity (144,000 out of 7,500,000,000) prior to a time of great suffering. He doesn't sound all that compassionate or loving. Here is some stuff from EvilBible, a website which points out that Jesus doesn't match the Old Testament prophecies at all. If Jesus was a false messiah, then the Revelation is either entirely meaningless or far in the future.
"1) Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus (the messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means “God with us.” Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.
2) The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30). Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.
3) Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled.
4) The gospels (especially Matthew 21:4 and John 12:14-15) claim that Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9. But the next few verses (Zechariah 9:10-13) show that the person referred to in this verse is a military king that would rule “from sea to sea”. Since Jesus had neither an army nor a kingdom, he could not have fulfilled this prophecy."
Temper your assumption that God is willing only to save a fraction of the world against the whole counsel of the bible. God desires none to perish but all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). Whosoever will may come (Revelation 22:17, Romans 10:13, John 3:16-18). The invitation is open and free. But many are not willing (John 5:40, Matthew 23:37). Many love their sin and will not come into the light (John 3:19-20).
Delete1)https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/23276/in-matthew-121-23-why-is-jesus-not-named-emmanuel
Read the first reply with upvotes.
2) https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/4297/why-is-jesus-genealogy-traced-through-joseph
3) The latter half of that prophecy was already fulfilled, not by Jesus, but by the two kings being slain.
https://www.studylight.org/commentary/isaiah/7-16.html
4) Actually, Jesus did fulfill that prophecy exactly because he did NOT have an army.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/zechariah/9-10.htm
Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Take your doubts to Him. Study the bible and search for/pray about things you don't understand. Hope this helps.
I was talking to a friend of mine today, and we were finding it funny that these "old bucks" in the ministry that have talked about these "times they are a-comin'" days for years and years....they're kinda like the first ones to deny it when it's shown to them. I liken that to a little kid that's been told early on in the school year that when summer gets here he's going to Disney World. He's been reminded off and on throughout the year that he was going, but the cares of school have all but overtaken him and the thoughts of leaving for Disney have become a distant dream, perhaps never to be fulfilled in his lifetime. So a defense mechanism is put in place, and he starts holding fast to what is tangible, "no man knows the day or the hour he'll arrive at the gates of that magic kingdom", that's the largest weapon in his arsenal. Now the signs start appearing, the teacher starts putting up pictures of palm trees, flip flops, beach-balls, smiling suns with sunglasses on. At home, mom is dusting off the luggage, making him try on his swim trunks from last year, two weeks on the calendar are marked off with X's, etc...Signs everywhere now, but his hope is buried so deep under all the "red herrings" of the previous year that he's in total denial of the manifestation of the promise his father made to him, which seems like a lifetime ago. His mind is so focused on the fortress of comfort and complacency made up of his "doctrines" and of stories that were told to him of others that went down that path before and have been disappointed because of their impatience, selfish ambition, and unbelief. You know, it's like these ministers are saying, "you fools, don't you know that Christ's return is imminent, but for sure it won't happen on this day...." It's like they don't want Him to come back...I tell you what, if I happen to wake up on the 24th of September and nothing has happened, I'll be like Jeremiah, "as for me and my house we will STILL serve the Lord."
ReplyDeleteIt's the sign of the Son of Man.
ReplyDeleteShalom, Jake
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteI think it's the sign of the Son of Man "who is set as a sign that will be spoken against" (Luke 2:34). No need to wait for the great tribulation as that ended in 1948, nor for the Antichrist, as that is the papacy. The sign occurred on a Sabbath, 7 days before Yom Kippur, i.e., Armageddon on 30 September (when the jubilee trumpet will be blown, the 1st resurrection will happen, and Satan be bound). There is no better sign to underline Christ's humanity than the sign/wonder of Revelation 12:1-5 (the Greek for sign/wonder is always the same - semeion, see MATT 24:30).
Shalom, Jake
Foxit is the most prominent option in contrast to Adobe Reader. This one is about 2.9 MB and loads up instantly. http://type-into-pdf.com/
ReplyDeleteYou said: Astrology is the worship of the sun, moon, and stars or using them for pagan practices like the horoscope. Studying biblical signs in the heavens that point to and give glory to God has nothing whatsoever to do with astrology.
ReplyDeleteWikipedia says:
Astrology is a pseudoscience that claims to divine information about human affairs and terrestrial events by studying the movements and relative positions of celestial objects.
Well, that would mean astrology is what you are doing and is not false. You used astrology by monitoring the movements and positions of celestial objects (sun, moon and stars) to fit into your paradigm as you state an "astronomical alignment occurs that perfectly and uniquely" fits your model. That is astrology my friend. You don't need to worship the stars for it to fit but you are looking to the stars.
Blessings of Yah, Anon: Please let me start with a Bible quote:
ReplyDeleteGenesis 1:14 Then God said, “Let lights in the expanse of the sky be for separating the day from the night. They will be for SIGNS AND FOR SEASONS and for days and years.
The word in Hebrew translated here as "seasons" is moedim, which would be more properly translated as appointments. It is also the word used for Hebrew feast days (more properly God's feast days).
Mazzaroth? Before there was a Bible, the story of redemption was told in the sky by the constellations.
Please check out Chuck Missler's ebook on the Mazzaroth: https://khouse.org/articles/2014/1193
Here is a quote from his web site:
"The Mazzaroth has nothing to do with astrology or any attempt to tell our futures based on the stars. Rather, the Mazzaroth is a tool that uses the stars to tell a story.
The Hebrews knew their constellations. They were not to worship the stars, but the first chapter of Genesis states that when God created the heavenly bodies, He did so for several reasons. He said, “…Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.”[1]"
Blessings and shalom
.
"The sign is only three months away."
ReplyDeleteAnd?
I believe there is only eleven stars in the cluster and the twelfth is actually a planet. A little research found this to be my clue that this is another book seller. Jesus said only an adulteress generation seeks a sign and we sure fit that description. IMHO
ReplyDelete