The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
I've written before on the subject of a partial-rapture. In short, I disagree with the Gospel-deniers who promote it. However, I actually do believe in a partial-rapture - not of Believers, but of Christendom. All Believers who have thrown themselves on the mercy of God and are clinging to the Cross will be leaving very shortly. However, there are a great many who label themselves "Christian" and yet have never accepted God's provision for their sins. They talk incessantly of the Bible and good works and Jesus, yet they have no understanding of Jesus' primary message:
You think you are good, but you are not good. The law is far more perfect than you think. The law condemns, but the Spirit gives life. Breaking a single commandment, even the least of all the commandments, makes you guilty of breaking the entirety of it (Matthew 5:17-20, James 2:10). "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:4
The great irony of the rapture is that many "Christians" believe they are packed and ready to go because of their works. They believe their works and worthiness are what constitute the spotless garments described in Revelation, yet the truth is just the opposite. Jesus' blood and righteousness alone are the spotless garments that we are to be clothed in. The Tribulation Saints are said to come out of the Great Tribulation after having "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) because a great many of those future saints have presently soiled their garments. They are not soiled by their own sin or lack of performance, but because after having initially believed the Gospel message they later placed their faith in themselves and the Bible says our most righteous acts are but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). There is only one provision for sins, which is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I beg you to avail yourself to what God has provided.
I want to share with you a really powerful exegesis of The Parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew 25 from Jaco Prinsloo that seemingly resolves a number of questions about the partial-rapture theory and the letters to the churches:
I'm aware that many view all of Matthew 24 and 25 as pertaining only to the Jewish remnant during the Time of Jacob's Trouble and I agree with them to an extent, but I also agree with Jaco here and with 2 Timothy 3:16: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." 99% of Jews have never read Matthew 24 or 25, yet the Church has collectively read it for 2,000 years. I am very much a dispensationalist and believe in rightly dividing Scripture, but we must also be leery of ignoring whole sections of Scripture and saying to ourselves that there is no personal application. After all, how many Old Testament prophecies and psalms were originally written about Israel or a particular psalmist, yet in their greatest fulfillment became prophecies pointing to Christ? Scripture has many layers and patterns and all of it is useful and applicable to us in one way or another. Jack Kelley has a slightly alternative take on this parable and he may very well be right.
Barry Scarbrough also addresses the partial-rapture/works-righteousness crowd in one of his latest videos. This is well worth watching and so incredibly important for you to understand if you want to be ready for the rapture:
There is another great video I came across about rapture worthiness. This one is from Melissa at Midnight Hour Oil:
Thank you for sharing this on your site Gary! Blessings to you and I look forward to meeting you in the air soon!
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome! I was very blessed by this video. Thanks brother.
DeleteDear Jacob my brother, nice to hear from you here, please do allow me one question: why did you mix two different kinds of imagery in your video i.e. mixing wedding with harvest picture / symbolism? I got more confused now from that. I thought you would take care of the virgins as a certain group in the wedding, apart from the bride and get a new aspect from this. Blessings to you, MARANATHA
DeleteHi Annabel, sorry for the late reply, I only saw this now.
DeleteI believe the Heavenly Wedding is strongly associated with the main harvest as described in the Word of God as well as the model of the Temple. I have actually done a video on this where this is explained better if you are interested. It is on the same channel as the above video and the title is. The Rapture Part 2: Understanding the First Resurrection.
Blessings!!
I have no problem with the idea that there are many people who think they are saved but who are actually lost. I suspect that relatively few people are genuinely saved, and the rapture will take far fewer people than most suspect. However, I do believe that the rapture will take all believers; there is no partial rapture.
ReplyDeleteI also think there are plenty of texts in the Bible that support the idea that many are deceived into thinking they are saved when they are lost. For example, in Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus speaks of this extensively. (Isn't it interesting that the verses here are 21 through 23, when we are watching for September 21-23?)
But I balk at using Matthew 24 and 25 to make this point. In this passage the foolish bridesmaids go to buy oil, then they make their way to the groom but the groom refuses to let them in. Even though they have gone to get oil (the Holy Spirit), Jesus still claims He doesn't know who they are. That doesn't match the rapture at all! All kinds of people will be saved after the rapture, and Jesus will not turn any of them away.
If this is speaking of events at the end of the Tribulation then it makes sense. But it is horrifying if it is speaking of the rapture. Do we really want to argue that salvation is impossible after the rapture? Are we sure we want to tell people that even if you do get saved after the rapture, Jesus will refuse to recognize you?
Matthew 25 is much debated and early pre-trib scholars associated it with the rapture. I do lean towards its primary meaning as pertaining to the end of the Trib.
DeleteHowever, a couple points:
1. I'm curious to see how Jaco interprets the oil in video #2. It's typically seen as a symbol of the Holy Spirit and/or good works, but in this video I think Jaco makes a strong case that the oil does not line up well with the Holy Spirit because of a myriad of verses.
2. The bridegroom doesn't tell the five foolish virgins here that they can't be saved, He just tells them He doesn't know them, which makes perfect sense for religious people whose faith is in themselves and have no real relationship with Christ. If this passage is also applied to the rapture I don't see why it has to indicate that the five foolish can never be saved. Rather, once the rapture has happened there will be no going "up". The door is shut. Now the foolish virgins will have to wash their soiled garments in the blood of the Lamb during the Trib (Rev. 7:14).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGary,
ReplyDeleteI’d like to add “my 2 cents” to your article about reconciling faith and works (which you linked into that one). I mostly thought of putting here a few Bible verses to represent my point of view.
“Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (John 6:28-29)
“For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14)
“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:10)
“For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:15)
I think these Bible verses are speaking for themselves concerning the topic of how faith and works are related! What I’d like to add is that in my opinion two things seem to be totally overlooked in general when it comes to this topic. The first one is the process of sanctification. It is literally a process of a lifetime and could greatly differ in the believers’ lives! We should never compare ourselves to other believers or other believers to each other because the process of sanctification could differ in everyone’s life as I mentioned. (The sanctification is the Holy Spirit’s work IN us and in our lives as He is forming us to the resemblance of Jesus.) “…being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;” (Philippians 1:6)
The other often (kind of totally, should I say) overlooked fact is what is stated in Ephesians 2:10 I’ve just quoted above. It is God Himself WHO PREPARED THE GOOD WORKS FOR US in Christ Jesus! I believe so that these good works are what we do by the prompting of His Holy Spirit and IN His strength! He leads us in them! For example, He puts it on your heart to pray for a certain person. At times we are not even aware that the Lord is making us doing something until after it happened! Maybe at the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ we will be surprised what counted as treasured work and what counted as worthless. Sadly, there will be believers whose works (most of it or the whole) will be burned up but they will still be saved because of the eternal foundation of their life: the Lord’s finished work on the cross, His redemptive act on their behalf in which they believed.
Really good Scriptures and salient points you make. I think your "2 cents" is worth a lot more than 2 cents! (:
DeleteThank you for your kindness Gary! :) All credit goes to the Holy Spirit Who led me to the Bible verses and helped me to put everything “in context”.
DeleteAMEN, Nora!!! Excellent 2 cents. GOD bless you.
DeleteNehemiah 13:14 (KJV) 14 Remember me, O my God, concerning this, and wipe not out my good deeds that I have done for the house of my God, and for the offices thereof.
ReplyDeleteLAMP-
ReplyDeleteThe spirit of a man is the lamp of the Lord searching all the inner depths of his heart (Pro 20:27)
VESSEL-
Each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honour (1 Thess 4:4)
THE LAMP REPRESENTS OUR SPIRIT
THE VESSEL REPRESENTS OUR BODY
He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him (1 Cori 6:17)
All Christians have the Holy Spirit in their spirits.
But if they don't have the Holy Spirit in their vessels ( thoughts, words and actions)
Then they are called foolish.
Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine and DOES them I will liken him to a WISE MAN
Everyone who hears these sayings of Mine and does not do them will be like a FOOLISH MAN (Matt7:24-26)
"All Christians have the Holy Spirit in their spirits." Those who are sealed by the Lord's Holy Spirit are the *born again believers*. And all of them will go in the rapture. The Holy Spirit won't "unseal" them before the rapture to leave them behind. Also, when one reads that parable carefully, they'll notice that the foolish virgins haven't had oil in their lamps in the first place. The parable doesn't say that they had oil in the beginning but ran out of it! No, they haven't had oil from the start.
DeleteThose who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil ( in their vessels) with them.
DeleteThe foolish said " our lamps are going out "
The parable of the wise and foolish virgins can be compared to the wise man and foolish man in Matthew 7: 21-27
Not everyone who says Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven
Many will say Lord Lord have we not prophesied in Your name.......................
Then I will declare to them " I never knew you"
Whoever hears these sayings of Mine (Matthew 5,6,7) and does them I will liken him to a wise man
Whoever hears these sayings of Mine and does not do them I will liken him to a foolish man
So there can be born again Christians who may prophesy, cast out demons and do many wonders. But if they do not live according to the teachings of Christ, then Christ will say, "I never knew you "
And what is it that the foolish men in Matthew 7 offer for entrance?
DeleteTHEIR WORKS. And even still, most detailed dispensational commentaries place that at the end of the Trib.
Anonymous,
DeletePlease understand! The Lord can’t say to born again believers that “I’ve NEVER knew you!” Born again believers are indwelt by His Holy Spirit, He KNOWS THEM intimately! The Bible is quite clear on the fact that the Lord sealed us by His Holy Spirit for His return, there’s not a word about unsealing. If it were possible to be unsealed at one point which isn’t, because He's also clear about the fact that no one can snatch us out of His hands and out of His father’s hands and the “no one” includes us TOO! So, if it were possible, He still couldn’t say “I’ve NEVER knew you!” to that hypothetical Christian who was once saved because he was once indwelt by His Holy Spirit! I think it is clearer than the Sun that those who the Lord never knew are unbelievers who were never saved! I think that even an elementary school child can understand that logic.
"For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) (Sounds pretty final for me.)
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
(John 10:28-30)
It is only by grace and grace alone that we merit entry into the kingdom of heaven.
DeleteChrist has accomplished on the cross what we ever needed for salvation and sanctification
But that is not a license for us to live in wilful sin. The wise live a life of obedience to Christ, following His teachings whereas the foolish does not live according to Christ's teachings.
Love your enemies Christ said. We need to ask God's help and strength to really love our enemies. Do not worry about your life Christ said. We need to trust God and cast all our cares upon Him. So on and so forth
Instead if we hate our enemies and continue to live in sin Christ may call us foolish.
"Instead if we hate our enemies and continue to live in sin Christ may call us foolish." I'm sorry but I think it is solely your own assumption. Yes, the Lord's grace is not a license for us to sin! Even so, we are saved sinners with a sinful nature, we keep on sinning, there are lots of sins we're not aware of and sadly even willful sins happen. The key is the process of sanctification which is a maturing process in Christ of a lifetime. Our most important aim should be to live a life pleasing to the Lord and spend it in a loving relationship with Him. It’s very important to maintain our daily fellowship with Him with regular prayer, including the regular confession of our sins and asking for His forgiveness in prayer. We should ask the Holy Spirit to lead us and let Him do it and ask Him to help us in the process. We should let the Lord be our Good Shepard! There are a lot of things I could add. One of my points is that our attitude should be gratitude not constant fear that we'll lose our salvation! The Lord took care of that, He really, literally paid in full all of our sins, past present and future! I stand by my opinion stated in my previous comment to you. But I apologize for what I said about the “elementary school child understanding”, re-reading that sentence sounds and feels unloving I'm sorry about that! And sadly, there are unsaved people who think that they are doing things for God and in His name. For example, driving out demons is still a practice in the Catholic Church. With that I’m not saying that every person in the Catholic Church is unsaved, far from it!! But I’m sure that in the clergy unsaved people exist too and they are still practicing “driving out demons” for example.
DeleteNora
DeleteYes I accept that when we have a loving relationship with God, and want to please Him, even though we may sin knowingly or unknowingly God does forgive us seventy times seven and even more when we feel sorry for our sins.
My point here is if someone starts using grace as a license for sin then such a person will be called foolish.
A person who has come into a loving relationship with Christ has the assurance of salvation and is not tossed about in fear of losing it.
But if somebody who accepts Christ thinks that henceforth they can live as they wish, in immorality, bitterness, lying and cheating then such a person would be called foolish.
Christ said that if any man would follow me let him deny himself take up his cross and follow me. Those who are not willing to forsake their old way of living are the foolish ones
Mariann,
DeleteIf I understood you correctly, we can lose our salvation based on our own performance (based on certain behavior standards) and that's the point where I don't agree.
“Only let us live up to what we have already attained.” (Philippians 3:16)
What have already attained. It is finished, surely in the past, a done deal. It is attained in Christ, it was actually Him who attained salvation and our secure place in Him for us. We should live up to it out of gratitude because of the Lord’s great love and mercy toward us. We're taking up our cross by accepting His redemption for our sins. Change of behavior should happen under the guidance of the Holy Spirit as we let Him leading us, teaching us, nurturing us and conforming us more to Christ.
“The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." (Romans 8:15)
Let’s face it, if keeping our salvation depends on us, on our performance, we can’t avoid constant fear and a basic anxiety since our eternal destiny is on the line! The worry is constant if we measure up or not and I think the point of the Sermon on the Mount is that we could never measure up to the Lord’s standards while being in our sinful nature.
Yet, I’d like to repeat, I agree that the Lord’s grace is NOT a license to sin!!! His grace should be the BIGGEST REASON for our gratitude! I’m NOT encouraging anyone to not care at all and live a life out of fellowship with the Lord, quite the contrary! A life out of fellowship could bring a lot of misery and pain and missing out on a lot of fulfillment which could only a close and loving relationship with the Lord could bring.
Some good studies on what fellowship with the Lord means:
https://gracethrufaith.com/audio/union-fellowship/
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/forgiveness/union-and-fellowship-expanded/
One more thing. In my previous comments on this topic I mentioned that I'm more on the opinion that the parables of the virgins and the talents aren't about the Church. These parables are immediately followed by the Lord's description of the Judgment of the Sheep and Goats that immediately happens after His Second Coming. In my opinion that is a strong hint that the previous parables are also about the time of His Second Coming and the Olivet Discourse parables are in one unit with His teaching about the Sheep and Goat Judgment (which is clearly about the Tribulation survivors).
DeleteNora
DeleteThank you so much for patiently explaining things out.
Here I was commenting in the context of the parable of the foolish and wise virgins.
In my personal study of this parable, I felt that this parable was similar in many ways to that of the wise man and foolish man.
In both parables they were called either wise or foolish.
In both parables Christ said I never knew you to the foolish.
In both parables the foolish addressed Christ as Lord, Lord
These similarities between the two parables led me to think that there may be name sake Christians who simply call Christ as Lord but are not willing to follow His teachings. Such people will be told by Christ "I never knew you "
Mariann,
DeleteConcerning the Lord telling someone “I never knew you!” I can only repeat what I said previously about that. The ones the Lord doesn’t have an intimate knowledge of and never knew them are unbelievers who were never saved, His Holy Spirit never indwelt them. At the Second Coming, when the Lord comes back in His glory, EVERYONE will acknowledge Him, everyone without exception as the Bible says. Every knee will bow and every mouth will confess that He is Lord! Of course the people approaching Him and try to “reason” with Him to let them into His kingdom will call Him Lord! But for the unsaved ones it will be late. Finally they acknowledged Him but it will be too late for them.
I think in a nutshell we either trust in our own performance (of a set behavioral standard) or we trust in the Lord’s finished work and redemption on our behalf. I mean, the notion that “the Lord saved me but from now on I should participate too in keeping my own salvation” isn’t working. Behavioral modification should come with time gradually for everyone in their own pace (since we’re all different) as they are maturing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit in Christ. (Also, correcting fellow believers to the prompt of the Holy Spirit, under His guidance, in a loving, gentle and firm way is all right.)
Deletep.s.: Sadly, “cultural-only” Christians exist, they aren’t born again, therefore they don’t have a personal relationship with the Lord. They’re practicing and following “dead religion”, man-made traditions or they were simply christened as a baby and that’s all. (In general many of them think that if they live a decent life, try to be good and attend Church regularly, they have the chance to go to Heaven.) They NEED TO MEET Jesus personally to become born again, receiving saving faith from Him. (As we are saved by faith through grace that is from the Lord so no one can boast.)
p.p.s: Including everything I previously said, at the end the Lord knows who belongs to Him, we must be careful not to rush to judgment concerning others. We should always wait on the Holy Spirit.
DeleteNora
DeleteI think the parable of the virgins refers to the rapture. Because it says that those who were ready went in with Him to the wedding.
In Luke 12: 36 Christ is telling those left behind to be like men who wait for their master when he will return from the wedding.
I would like to clarify that I trust only in Christ's merit not my own. I only say that our salvation must result in a changed life.
Good works are not a means to salvation but good works must be the result of salvation.
Mariann,
DeleteThen, we disagree about the interpretation of the parable of the 10 virgins. I still think so that this parable is in one unit with the Sheep and Goats judgment description and it's about the wedding banquet guests who are /are not qualified to be invited in. Perhaps it’s connected to the story of those who don't have the required white garments of righteousness for the wedding party. I think Greg L. is right in his assumption that the Bride is absent in this parable. Also, as much as I know, no bride has ever had to be qualified to participate in their own wedding, not even in Jewish wedding customs that parallels the rapture! When He accepted us as His Bride we were qualified! Accepting the Lord's sacrifice for our sins qualified us. Just like there's no mention of unsealing by the Holy Spirit, there's not any mention of the Lord ending our engagement, everything seems to be finished in the Lord's perspective.
“I only say that our salvation must result in a changed life.” As I mentioned before, this is the process of sanctification throughout our lifetime under the Holy Spirit’s guidance. (And it is happening for everyone in a different pace, that’s why we should be careful not to rush to judgment.)
Though our interpretations are different, I believe we both trust only in God's righteousness and not our own righteousness.
DeleteI never would dare to think of my righteousness as something nor would dare to question those living in sin.
But I just view the parable of virgins in this way. I thought those Christians who boldly profess that they are homosexual or into other addictions and sins may represent the foolish virgins.
But speaking about my personal experience I always believe that Christ's righteousness is the royal robe given to me. I dare not trust in my filthy rags of self righteousness.
Nora
DeleteI would like to just share with you something that I was taught when I was young.
Matthew 18: 23- 35
Here we read about a King who settled accounts with his servants.
One servant was brought before him with a huge debt. He was unable to pay the debt. Only if he, his wife and children were sold the debt could be repaid. That servant fell down at his master' s feet and asked him to be patient with him. The master had compassion on him and forgave all his debt. But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a little money and demanded his money back. When the fellow servant asked him to be patient, he refused to show mercy.
When the King heard about this he called that servant and said to him " I had pity on you and forgave all your debts. Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant just as I had pity on you.
The master was angry with that servant and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
So My Heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you from his heart does not forgive his brother his trespasses.
From the above passage I was taught that as a Christian we need to forgive others just as Christ forgave us. When Christ has forgiven tonnes and tonnes of my sin I am obliged to forgive the ounce of sin that others commit against me.
If I do not forgive the ounce of sin that others commit against me , then the tonnes and tonnes of sin that God had forgiven me would be brought back into my account. In other words I may lose the salvation I got.
Christ taught us to pray " Father forgive us our sins even as we forgive those who sin against us " The two are tied together, our forgiveness and how we forgive others, i was taught
Sister please don't get me wrong. I never trust in my self righteousness but I have always prayed for Gods strength to forgive everyone.
I am not perfect only Christ's righteousness makes me perfect.
I don't live in fear of failing. I am just cautious not to allow unforgiveness or bitterness to creep into my heart. When I feel bitterness I ask for Gods strength to overcome it.
DeleteAnd I trust in God Who is able to keep us from stumbling and to present us faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy ( Jude 24)
DeleteNora
DeleteOne thing that we need to believe as a Christian is that our old man was crucified with Christ.
Romans 6:6
Our old man was crucified with Christ that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Our old man with the sinful nature has been crucified with Christ.
Now we have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator (Colossians 3:10)
We can now be partakers of the divine nature ( 2 Peter: 4)
Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)
We need to believe these promises.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness (Romans 4:3)
If you love me keep my commandments Jesus said
Matthew 5,6 &7 has the commandments of Christ.
Christ concludes those chapters with the instruction that a wise man will obey and follow those teachings. The teachings of Matthew 5,6 &7 emphasises on a Christ like nature.
The foolish man does not long for that Christ like nature but thinks that he is serving God through his ministry.
So likewise when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do. (Luke 1710)
As Christians it is our duty to obey God.
Here it is not to establish our self righteousness that we obey God.
We show our love for God by obeying His commandments.
And we know that it is by His righteousness alone that we stand perfect.
But God is merciful and loving and considerate and forgiving and He gives us the needed grace and guidance all along the way. Christ died on the cross not just to forgive our sins but also to give us a new nature.
Anonymous,
Delete“If I do not forgive the ounce of sin that others commit against me , then the tonnes and tonnes of sin that God had forgiven me would be brought back into my account. In other words I may lose the salvation I got.
Christ taught us to pray " Father forgive us our sins even as we forgive those who sin against us " The two are tied together, our forgiveness and how we forgive others, i was taught”
With all due respect, in my opinion you were taught wrongly about that! You repeat the same views on salvation no matter what Bible verses I’m bringing up to refute the notion of conditional salvation! We could go on and on about this endlessly! The point is that either you believe that your salvation is eternally secure in the Lord no matter what or you believe so that you have to participate in keeping it! You’ve just said that one can lose their salvation. In another comment you said you believe that we’re saved through the Lord’s grace alone. These two views aren’t compatible when we look deeper into the matter of salvation in Christ.
As for the parable of the unmerciful servant here are some good teachings on it:
https://gracethrufaith.com/?s=unmerciful+servant
I also recommend Jack Kelley's detailed teachings on *Once Saved Always Saved*:
https://gracethrufaith.com/?s=osas
p.s.: The thing is, if you can lose your salvation because you failed to forgive someone, that puts the responsibility of the maintenance of your salvation on your own shoulder. That can’t be reconciled with our dependence solely on the Lord, on His love, mercy and strength and on His accomplished works aka redemption on our behalf.
Deletep.p.s.: If what I said in the first part of my reply was in any way blunt, I'd like to apologize for that! I hope that the Lord will help you and bless you through the studies I linked concerning these topics!
DeleteDear sister Nora
DeleteI am hearing this abbreviation OSAS for the first time only from you.
I went to the sites you mentioned and read the messages.
It really feels good to know that you are eternally secure.
But the problem with me is that I never settle for anything until I know for sure it is the safest route.
Regarding OSAS several questions pop up in my head.
1. What about Judas Iscariot?
The Lord personally chose him after praying the whole night. Judas accepted Christ and followed him for 3.5 years
2. What about people who were genuine Christians and later turned into atheists?
Will the Lord still save them when they deny the very existence of God.
3. Christ clearly admonished us
" STRIVE to enter through the narrow gate "(Luke 13:24)
" if your right eye causes you to sin pluck it out and cast it from you for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish than for your whole body to be cast into hell " (Matthew 5:29)
Philippians 2: 12-13 says
WORK OUT your own salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING
For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure
I think it is alright to have fear now rather than to burn in hell later.
Let me think about two possible situations that can arise
WHEN I STAND BEFORE THE LORD
Situation 1.
I strived to live a holy life with God's help but trusted only in God's grace and righteousness. Now I stand before God.
Will God say " My child you trusted only in my grace. Then why did you also strive to live a holy life. Please go to hell.
Will the Lord say that? I think not.
Situation 2.
I believe in OSAS and do not strive to live a holy life. Now I stand before God.
If God says " My child I have given you so many warnings about sin . If your eye causes you to sin I asked you to pluck it out rather than go to hell . Why didn't you heed my advice? Please go to hell.
At that time can we argue with God? Can we show the scriptures that support OSAS to God? I think not
So I think I will better take the safer route than the easier route.
I would rather do what best I can do now,
before it becomes TOO LATE
" I would rather do what best I can do now,
Deletebefore it becomes TOO LATE "
Here I mean what best I can do with God's help
to obey God's commandments
WORK OUT your own salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING
DeleteFor it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
( Philippians 2: 12,13)
There are two sides to this working.
1. We working with fear and trembling knowing that
2. God is working on the inside of us.
"If your eye causes you to sin pluck it out and cast it from you"
1. The Words Jesus spoke are Spirit and life. They show us the correct way.
2. To walk away from temptation is what we do with God's help.
Anonymous,
DeleteThe points you brought up are covered in the studies I linked.
I can't really say anything new besides all the things I've already said and I wouldn’t like to turn this topic into a long debate. I say it with a peaceful intent, please don’t get me wrong but it seems to me that you have a misunderstanding about what it really means to be saved through faith by the Lord’s grace. Please bring that matter before the Lord in prayer, it is the best thing any of us can do, especially when we aren’t sure about something!
Is it maybe worth noting that Christ died for all of mankind. He paid the price in full for even those right now suffering in hell.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am trying to say is that everyone was invited to the wedding...
Please read the first verse!
ReplyDeleteJESUS said, "Then shall the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN......." Lost people do not make up the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!
DO THEY???
Don't you want to marry someone that you know INTIMATELY??? I did!!! I ask my wife to marry me 41 years ago because we were in love! Those 5 wise virgins went in unto the MARRIAGE. They were watching and taliking with their groom (PRAYING) & they wanted to get married!!! That's who is going to get married! THINKK ABOUT IT!!! The 5 wise virgins, they don't have a clue. Until it's too late!
ReplyDeleteTAKEN from YouTube: *****
ReplyDelete"he Great Pyramid appears to be an epic end-timessign!! Apparently, the purpose of the Great Pyramid in Giza Egypt, is to mark one specificdate in all of human history. That date is Sept.20, 2017. The heavenly alignment marked by the Great Pyramid and the heavenly alignment foretold in Rev.12, both once in all historyevents, are bookends shouting out to us that the Feats of Trumpets happening this yearis the one in which the Rapture of the Church will take place.The Christ Angle within the Great Pyramid (formed by the ascending and descendingpassageways) is 26.3 degrees.The way I see it, the astronomical alignments (and prophetic meanings behind them) that the Christ Angle points to on Sept.20, 2017 can only be engineered by the hand of the Godof the Bible. A thought recently "came to mind".... "do the numbers 263 for the 26.3 degreeChrist Angle carry any further prophetical significance?" ....maybe so! The 263rd day of 2017 just so happens to be Sept.20th!!Sept.20, 2017 = Elul 29, 5777, the "last day"of the year 5777 on the Hillel Hebrew calendar (and the potential "last day" that the Bride of Christ will be upon the earth).The largest Dow Jones Industrial Average point drop in history was 777 points onSept.29, 2008 which also fell on an Elul 29 ... this time in 5768 - exactly 9 Jewishor prophetic years before the date the Great Pyramid is heralding!! The number 9 denotesfinality or judgment, and 7 represents completion. 777 points 9 years earlier pointing tothe year 5(777) = "777-9" - completed judgment!! ... Exciting Times to be a follower ofJesus Christ!"
How about them apples?
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI thought about this, and here's how I see it...
ReplyDeleteBride = church
Virgins/bridesmaids = secular people
Oil = learning
Light = Holy Spirit
When the rapture happens, secular people worldwide snap awake of their spiritual slumber. Wise bridesmaids, recognizing that they had heard about that kind of thing before, pick up a dusty Bible from its shelf and start reading the Revelation. Foolish bridesmaids in pure confusion try to google for information but don't know any good keywords and are likely to stumble into dangerous peddlers of false teachings, honest oil merchants having closed for the night. The wise bridesmaids in turn are reluctant to teach because they themselves don't know that much and are afraid of teaching the wrong doctrine.
In the end only those bridesmaids who can learn to know Jesus in the time allotted can get in.
Exactly, guys.
ReplyDeleteMy view is that Bible sales will be astronomical (pun?) following the 'rescue' or 'evacuation', if it occurs this autumn. Someone had also mentioned somewhere that the shock and fear of such an event would cause Jews to open up that New Testament out of curiosity.
Perhaps.
Sorry for not chiming in earlier friends, but I'm with Nora on this. She does a great job laying out the biblical case for salvation/rapture-worthiness and rightly dividing justification, sanctification, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible teaches lots of things, including good works, but you have to put everything together in its proper place. 88 NT Scriptures teach sola fide, while only about 24 teach works. There isn't a contradiction, you just have to fit it together correctly.
Justification is through faith alone. We are made right before God through Christ's shed blood alone - by receiving His free gift through faith. This is the foundation repeatedly spoken of in the NT. If someone has a genuine faith in Christ's atonement and resurrection, then they will be saved.
Sanctification is a process of overcoming the sinful nature in this life, but no Christian (Peter and Paul included) have ever completed sanctification in THIS life, yet all Believers are in the process of BEING MADE HOLY.
Glorification is the moment of complete and total salvation, both body and soul, and Christians are glorified/transformed in the rapture (being born again to see the Kingdom of Heaven). This is the moment of perfection when the fleshly sinful nature is removed once and for all. This is the perfection repeatedly spoken of in 1 John.
One of the Biblical stories that come to my mind when I think of OSAS is the case of the “criminal” guy who was crucified next to Christ and acknowledged Him right there and got saved. The Lord told him that they’ll meet in Paradise on that day. The criminal guy after a life of crime repented and got saved; he couldn’t do anymore, good or bad because his life on earth was over. If we use the logic that born again people can lose their salvation at one point in their lives if they don’t measure up to certain behavioral/performance standards and are sliding back and out of their salvation at some point… based on this logic, aren’t those born again people the “lucky ones” who die “as soon as possible” before they could turn into “backsliders” and starting to danger their own salvation? Does this not sound absurd? I think it does.
Deletep.s.:
DeleteI think I should add that on the other side of the coin, sin could have pretty grave consequences! 1 Corinthians 11 is a good example of that. It’s about the consequences of taking the Lord’s Supper in an unworthy way. I’ve just a teaching about it recently. It was emphasized in the teaching that committing sins right before taking the Supper was not the main point (nonetheless the confession of our sins before taking the Supper is absolutely important!), the main point was -according to the pastor’s take on the Apostle Paul’s description in that part of 1 Cor 11- the fact that those Corinthian Christians who took the Lord’s Supper in an unworthy way had a gravely sinful and willful attitude of sowing discord in their congregation. It was also added that all the people who aren’t born again are committing the sin of taking the Lord ’s Supper in an unworthy way.
“So then whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in a way that is unworthy [of Him] will be guilty of [profaning and sinning against] the body and blood of the Lord. But a person must [prayerfully] examine himself [and his relationship to Christ], and only when he has done so should he eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks [without solemn reverence and heartfelt gratitude for the sacrifice of Christ], eats and drinks a judgment on himself if he does not recognize the body [of Christ]. That [careless and unworthy participation] is the reason why many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep [in death]. But if we evaluated and judged ourselves honestly [recognizing our shortcomings and correcting our behavior], we would not be judged. But when we [fall short and] are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined [by undergoing His correction] so that we will not be condemned [to eternal punishment] along with the world.” (1 Corinthians 11:27-32 Amplified Bible)
In my interpretation, this is a good example that the Lord could even take a person’s life when the situation, their sin is that grave, sparing their spirit and soul in the process.
(grammar correction: I left out *heard* in the sentence of "I've just heard a teaching about it recently.")
DeleteOn the basis of Scripture if we need be ready for Christ's coming we need to
ReplyDelete1. Forgive everyone ( with God's help)
2. Forsake our sinful ways (again with God's help, searching our hearts in the light of Matthew 5,6,7)
3. Throw ourselves entirely at the mercy of God not trusting in our own righteousness but depending
only on the merit of Christ.
Dear sister Nora
ReplyDeleteI prayerfully pondered over what you said. I would like to share a few things with you.
First of all I feel that we must not teach OSAS as a theological teaching. People must work their way to find it out.
In my former posts I was explaining how believers must view the scriptures.
But speaking about my personal experience, after having walked with God and experienced His love I have the blessed assurance that Jesus is mine. Nothing can ever separate me from my sweet Lord not even my mistakes and I know that I need not work my way to Him. He is my beloved Lord who has chosen me to be His even before the creation of the world and He who began a good work in me will complete it.
But if we make OSAS as a teaching people may not come into a deeper commitment to God. They may think that once you accept Christ the deal is done.
And believers may feel it like a lullaby and will never grow in their spiritual life.
So I think this is something that every believer will eventually learn but should be something that people must discover for themselves.
Anonymous,
Delete"But if we make OSAS as a teaching people may not come into a deeper commitment to God. They may think that once you accept Christ the deal is done.
And believers may feel it like a lullaby and will never grow in their spiritual life."
I disagree! This is one of the oldest arguments of people holding legalistic views. I think the opposite way: understanding OSAS, what our eternal security in Christ truly means is crucial!
"They may think that once you accept Christ the deal is done." YES, the deal is done! Exactly! What more is needed? The intent for holy living should be gratitude because of the very truth of Once Saved Always Saved showing the unparalleled richness of the Lord's love and mercy toward us! On the other hand, scaring believers into "Behave or else...!" won't help in their growth in the Lord and I doubt that it pleases Him.
It still seems to me that you are mixing two very incompatible points of views. Please continue bringing this issue in prayer before the Lord!
I'd also recommend the videos linked in this post:
http://www.unsealed.org/2017/06/the-strange-fire-of-legalists.html
You make an interesting point, but I think if OSAS is a biblical doctrine (Which I believe it is) then we need to teach it. We shouldn't cover up or gloss over biblical doctrines out of fear for how it might lead someone astray - we need to teach the whole counsel of God. There are so many OSAS Scriptures. And besides, the greatest danger in NOT teaching OSAS is that people end up relying on themselves and their works and performance, which may ultimately lead them away from the Gospel, which actually would be eternally fatal.
ReplyDeleteNow, should we teach that if someone goes down one time for an altar call, says a sinner's prayer, or gets baptized they will be saved? Absolutely not. Doing something one time in your life is not sufficient. You need an ongoing faith in Christ. John 3:16 - ..."whoever BELIEVES [present active tense]..."
Gary,
DeleteI'd like to add that the *ongoing faith in Christ* is also the gift of the Lord. I believe so that *saving faith in Christ* is something we continually possess after getting saved, not something we have to continually work for, maintaining in the sense that otherwise we'll lose it someday if we “stop caring”.
"Now, should we teach that if someone goes down one time for an altar call, says a sinner's prayer, or gets baptized they will be saved? Absolutely not. Doing something one time in your life is not sufficient." IF the intent of the heart of the person who turned to the Lord was sincere and they truly accepted the Lord's pardon for their sins, they've got sealed by the Holy Spirit on the spot, and in that case they are saved forever and that one act was sufficient in my opinion.
I also pondered about the key points where we differ and I feel that we need to know about the difference between obedience and justification.
ReplyDeleteOBEDIENCE: Every believer is called to live a life of obedience to God. We have the word of God to show us the correct path and the Spirit of God to help us walk in that path.
JUSTIFICATION: We are justified only by Christ 's righteousness. We should never seek to be justified by our works.
There are two errors that we can commit here:
Error 1.
We may live a life of obedience to God and seek to be justified by our works.
Error 2.
We may seek to be justified by grace and think that if we try to live a life of obedience to God it may be our self righteousness.
But the correct thing to do is:
1. We must live a life of obedience to God.
2. We must seek to be justified only by grace.
Yes, in a nutshell: attempting to live a life pleasing to the Lord, out of GRATITUDE because of knowing that he saved us from eternal damnation and also made us eternally secure in Him! I think nobody here encouraged disobedience. We also added that the Lord’s grace is not a license of sin. One of the things that I’ve learned in my walk with the Lord is that the safest, most fulfilling and most blessed place is within the will of the Lord! He really knows what is best for us and only He is able to fulfill all our needs!
Delete“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;
The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold,
Yea, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover by them Your servant is warned,
And in keeping them there is great reward.”
(Psalm 19:7-11) This is one very fitting description of the abundant life Jesus promised us. I could also add Psalm 34 and a lot more. As we’re maturing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit we’re gradually learning obedience as well.
Dear sister Nora
Delete"I think nobody here encouraged disobedience"
Nobody did that. Of course I think you and Gary have a close walk with God and doing a great job here.
I was only thinking of people who would not have really committed their lives to God and who would be living in sin. I wrote thinking that they still have some more time to come to God before it becomes too late
Also I would say again that it is only by grace that we are saved not by our works. We need to obey God but our works cannot save us.
Yes we obey the Lord with a spirit of son ship out of gratitude not with a servant spirit out of fear.
ReplyDeleteDear sister Nora I live in a country where the Christian population is less than 3%
In our country I see members of the church going to court over church matters and believers fighting with one another while the unbelieving world mocks at us. There are so many other things going on that I feel would pain the Lord. All these things make me wonder where Christians go wrong.
It was in that context I wrote earlier and never to criticise anyone. I actually never like to argue over any issue. Rather if I have any doubt I ask the Lord about it.
Moreover I don't get much spare time and almost never participate in commenting.
Sometime back when I was googling about the September sign I landed up in Unsealed.
Sister if in any way I was wrong please forgive me.
We will all meet up soon in the clouds
Please don't worry, no offense was taken in any way, it's all right! :)
DeleteI hope so too that it will be soon!
Dear sister Nora
DeleteIn your previous post you have mentioned
" I think nobody here encouraged disobedience "
No sister nobody here encourages disobedience. Of course from all your writings I think that you and Gary have a close walk with God and you are doing a great job here.
And also I learned quite a lot from these articles. Your emphasis on eternal security will really help believers to rest in the Lord.
Also I learned that though we must obey God we must be always careful not to form a work based religion.
Thank you sister once again for your patient replies.
Dear Nora and Gary
DeleteWhen I read my posts again I feel that they sound like a Pharisee saying "I did this and that ". Sorry sister I am not a grace killer. I am nothing except for the grace of God. I am just a sinner saved by grace and kept by grace. I am so sorry if I hurt you in any way.
Folks....The clearest answer is in rightly dividing.....The parable of ten virgins clearly states "At that time in the kingdom of heaven..." The kingdom of heaven is a physical kingdom ruled with an iron sceptor and the kingdom of God is spiritual.
ReplyDeleteI have lived 20+ years as a backslidden Christian. January of 2017 God spoke to me and said that the "end was near". I have been spending more time reading on the signs, reading the Bible and making peace with my past. There is something about this year that is "special". It's either the end or it's the beginning of the end.
ReplyDeleteThere is NO pretrib rapture. The "man of sin" is revealed FIRST:
ReplyDelete"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition..." (2Te 2:1-4)
Those who have part at the FIRST resurrection "were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image…" (Rev 20:4-5)
"Dividing the word of God" (2Tim 2:15)
Some people use this verse to claim that the Word of God needs to be divided rightly, that some verses apply to Christians, some only to Jews; some only to the apostolic age, some for today, especially in the hyper-dispensational and hyper-grace movements. This is a gross misunderstanding of Scripture. The terminology “rightly dividing” (KJV) is imprecise and gives the wrong impression that the Word of God is to be divided. Nothing can be further from the truth.
The opposite is true: The Word of truth is not divided; The Word divides. Jesus declared, "Scripture cannot be broken". (John 10:35) This means it cannot be unbound, untied. Scripture is all tied together, not a piece here for some, and a piece there for others.
The word translated as "rightly divide" does not mean to divide into parts, but "accurately handling, making a straight cut, precisely dissecting with." The NAS Bible translates it more accurately: "accurately handling the word of truth." The Scripture uses the image of the Word of God as a sword:
"…the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God." (Eph 6:17)
"The Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." (Heb 4:12)
A sword cuts; it is not cut. The Word of God, as a sword, divides and is not divided. To "rightly divide" the word of truth is not to cut the Word into parts, but to use the sword of the Spirit accurately. Swordsmanship is an art. One does not just flail a sword, but rather employs skillful techniques of thrusting, jabbing, guarding, etc.
Dispensationalists claim to "rightly divide the word of truth" by dividing Scripture and church history into dispensations. Evangelist Armin Gesswein warns about dispensationalizing away the power of the Holy Spirit, explaining how man’s traditions and reasonings have truncated the gospel:
ReplyDelete"Those who taught us the combination key of dispensationalism say, 'God doesn’t do those things now. God doesn’t work like that any more.' Dispensationalism does not open the book of Acts and the power of God; it closes them. It is arbitrarily superimposed by man. Wherever dispensationalism gets in, it kills the deep spirit of prayer and revival. But how bracing in this day of need to know that we are still in the dispensation of the Holy Spirit just as in the Acts, and that God can baptize and fill believers with His Spirit, set churches on fire, and through them bring sinner to repentance and to Christ. For neither the promise of the Holy Spirit nor the promised Holy Spirit has been withdrawn, except where men no longer want Him as the first Christians did."
A.W. Tozer also warns about wrongly dividing the word of truth:
"In view of much of today’s dispensational teaching about Bible interpretation, the apostles, miracles of God, and the fullness of the Spirit, I must remind you that the Lord Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is nothing that Jesus has ever done for any of His disciples that He will not do for any other of His disciples! Where did the 'dividers-of-the-Word-of-Truth' get their teaching that all the gifts of the Spirit ended when the last apostle died? When some men beat the cover off their Bible to demonstrate how they stand by the Word of God, they should be reminded that they are only standing by their own interpretation of the Word."
Let us wisely wield the Word as the sword of the Spirit and keep the whole Word of God intact, not try to divide it into pieces.
Sometimes parables have more and deeper meanings than the most obvious one. For example, the parable of the 10 virgins. We see 5 prepared with oil for their lamps, and another five lacking enough oil for the night time path to the wedding. (Oil, a symbol of Holy Spirit.) Human logic says fr the low oil 5 to walk alongside the other 5, sharing the light. But note that as not offered there. That may tell us we are not to walk in another's light. Remember, the Israelites refused to walk close to God, choosing to walk in Moses' light, instead. They have floundered ever since. Another thought from that parable is; It may be showing us that only half of the Christians, (virgins) will be ready for the rapture, leaving half behind. Just some manna for thought.
ReplyDeleteWow! So many entries on this subject since I last visited. I don't know why, but my earlier comment was dropped down this low. I saw last nite that some had responded directly to me. I've been busy writing a book, so hadn't been back lately. My book subject is about what makes people become whom they become as adults. The following is a small insert in the coming book: Bible teachers assume that "Rightly dividing the Word" means, "Understanding it." But it doesn't. It means dividing...but divide what? In our New Testament, many things were said to both Jews and gentiles. Almost all that Jesus spoke was to unsaved Jews still under the Law, mostly not for gentiles. The Bible being long, and our forgetting an earlier verse when reading a later related verse can confuse us. We must understand that Jesus was mostly speaking to a people who were to continue existing in an earthly Kingdom of God, while Paul was speaking to a people who would be in a Heavenly Kingdom. Simply, Jews and Christians have different destinies, thus we must rightly divide whom the words were meant for, Jews, gentiles, or both. In doing so, one can see properly about tithing, pre, mid, or post Tribulation rapture, and much more.
ReplyDeleteStrange,that washing your robes equals keeping the commandments! I'll keep the commandments of my Lord the best I can that I have the right to the tree of life. Rev.22:14 AKJV
ReplyDeleteOne of the mysteries in the Bible is that much is "type & shadow." The visible speaking of the invisible. The Old Testament is much the "Type," the New Testament is shadow, spiritual. "Blood" is one of the most oft used themes in the entire Bible. Our invisible robe is a symbol of our righteousness in Jesus, whose robe is washed in blood, as ours also should be continuously washed in His blood as He takes us through cleansing of our iniquity.
DeleteThere is no kind of partial rapture of any kind.Only Israel,the Children of Israel,and certain Jews will be saved during that time this is why its called Jacobs trouble there is no do over of the same dispensation.The tribulation Saints are Jews that come out from every nation,language,and tongue.Once comprehending the Light/Jesus we can never depart from His Grace.
ReplyDeleteThe parable of the 10 virgins, (saved ones) can give us a picture of the rapture that Paul assured us of, in missing the wrath of God. Five were ready for the Bridegroom to come, and 5 were not. Both sets of 5 were virgins, (saved.) Yet, as we can see, many born-again Christians are not walking with God, but have compromised.They won't be looking up, ready for His coming. Left behind to enter the Tribulation. If they then see their error, likely they will have to be martyred to make it to Heaven. Many Jews will be saved during the Tribulation, and will finally be the example for others that God had always wanted them to be.
ReplyDeleteIf one does not divide what is spoken by and to whom, one can easily mistake when and what is going to happen to whom. An example is; Jesus assured the Jews that they should tithe. But no mention is made of tithing by any in the New Testament. But there, we do see love gifts gathered to further the Church. Different examples for different people. Likewise, different destinies for different peoples.
That's a huge assumption that the 10 virgins in this passage represent born-again believers.
DeleteIt's also a huge assumption that this passage pertains to the pre-trib rapture of the predominantly Gentile Church.
However, what is not a huge assumption is that ALL believers in Christ will be raptured. His Body will not be divided. ALL who 'sleep' in Christ and ALL who are alive and remain will be going.
If you notice, I did not claim my post as facts. I used "may" and "sometimes" to show I was not putting out a doctrine. Most of our posts are speculations, so we can all benefit from what God "may" be showing others. But I did say "most" even here. This, because your final statement was presented as a fact.
ReplyDeleteWonderful blog! I found it while searching on Yahoo News. Do you have any suggestions on how to get listed in Yahoo News? I’ve been trying for a while but I never seem to get there! Thank you putlockers
ReplyDeleteAlong with almost everything which seems to be developing within this particular subject material, all your perspectives are somewhat exciting. Even so, I beg your pardon, but I do not subscribe to your entire strategy, all be it radical none the less. It seems to me that your commentary are actually not completely rationalized and in reality you are generally your self not even wholly convinced of the point. In any event I did appreciate reading through it. 먹튀검증
ReplyDelete