Turkey and Iran getting closer
Two key players in the Magog Alliance of Ezekiel 38 are drawing closer over Qatar, Sunni Turkey and Shia Iran. They are isolating Saudi Arabia (Sheba and Dedan), who will protest the coming invasion led by Magog, however the lines of division in the alliance run deep, and will result in its destruction as foretold in Ezekiel 39:
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Turkeys-power-play-in-Qatar-leads-to-warmer-relations-with-Iran-498468
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Turkeys-power-play-in-Qatar-leads-to-warmer-relations-with-Iran-498468
Gog and Magog is the world's final gathering around Jesus Christ and King David in Jerusalem at the end of the Millennium; just over 1000 years from now. Ref Exe 38; Rev 20:7-8.
ReplyDeleteHoward - Mark Davidson at foursignposts.com has some wonderful material on gog/magog and the wider conflict taking place in the middle east at the moment. I would highly recommend his material. In fact the article at jpost has one particular comment about the kurds that Mark will find highly interesting. Joel Richardson (a great author despite his inappropriate comments about the Rev12 sign) also has some good articles on gog/magog worth checking out at joelstrumpet.com
DeleteRyan D
Racliffe,
DeleteEither you are searching for polemics here, or you didn't know there is a Gog Magog confrontation before the Time of Troubles ends, beside the one at the end of the Millennium. There are TWO battles.
From the quotes:
"Josephus, a Jewish historian of the first century, says that the people of his day known as the Moschevi and Thobelites were founded by Meshech and Tubal respectively. He said, ‘...Magog is called the Scythians by the Greeks.’ He continued by saying that these people lived in the northern regions above the Caucasus mountains.
Pliny, a noted Roman writer of early Christian times, said, ‘Hierapolis, taken by the Scythians, was afterward called Magog.’ In this he shows that the dreaded barbaric people called the Scythians were identified with their ancient tribal name. Any good history book of ancient times traces the Scythians to be a principal part of the people who make up modern Russia.
Wilhelm Gesenius, a great Hebrew scholar of the early nineteenth century, discusses these words in his unsurpassed Hebrew Lexicon. ‘Meshech’, he says, ‘was founder of the Moschi, a barbarous people, who dwelt in the Moschian mountains’....the Greek name, ‘Moschi,’ derived from the Hebrew name Meshech is the source of the name for the city of Moscow. In discussing Tubal he said, ‘Tubal is the son of Rapheth, founder of the Tibereni, a people dwelling on the Black Sea to the west of the Moschi.’ Gesenius concludes by saying that these people undoubtedly make up the modern Russian people.
There is one more name to consider in this line of evidence. It is the Hebrew word, ‘Rosh,’ translated ‘chief’ in Ezekiel 38:2, 3 of the King James and Revised Standard Versions. The word literally means in Hebrew the ‘top’ or ‘head’ of something. According to most scholars, this word is used in the sense of a proper name, not as a descriptive noun qualifying the word ‘prince.’
The German scholar, Dr. Keil, says after a careful grammatical analysis that it should be translated as a proper name, i.e., Rosh. He says, ‘The Byzantine and Arabic writers frequently mention a people called Ros and Rus, dwelling in the country of Taurus, and reckoned among the Scythian tribes.’
Dr. Gesenius in his Hebrew Lexicon says, ‘...Rosh was a designation for the tribes then north of the Taurus Mountains, dwelling in the neighborhood of the Volga.
He concluded that in this name and tribe we have the first historical trace of the Russ or Russian nation.”
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteJesus was the King of Polemisists railing on Pharisees and Sadducees leading His Flock to error; In Titus 1:3 Paul said "Rebuke them sharply". My issue with your interpretation of Eze 38 is that its 1000 Years early. Jesus gathers the "Dry Bones" of Israel and joins the 2 Sticks of Judah and Joseph at the 2nd coming, not during the 7 Yr Tribulation which is not even in scripture. In Amos 5:2 He clearly states "The virgin of Israel has fallen and shall no more rise"; given that, why would He re-establish another Dispensation with Israel? Exe 38 is the same as Rev 20:7-8 at the end of the Millennium
DeleteHoward, there are many reasons and discussions as to why the Gog of Ezekiel 38 is not the Gog of Rev 20......you lose many of us with your definitive claim that it is. Unless you can demonstrate why they are one and the same, your argument is moot.....just a few for starters....after the Gog of Ezekiel 38/39, Israel and world know who the Savior is, and life moves on with cleaning the Land for 7 months...this does not happen after the Gog of Rev 20. The Gog of Ezekiel 38 has specific nations, and comes from the north, the Gog of Rev 20 is from the whole earth....and on and on.
DeleteIf you wish to support your adamant and definitive conclusions, you have to deal with the clear and obvious differences of the two, otherwise you will not have an audience!
We'll see Howard, of course we at Unsealed disagree with your views
ReplyDelete"...and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years...And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations with are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" Rev 20:4-8
Delete"And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall have one shepherd...My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be heir God, and they shall be my people" Exe 37:24;27 "Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chef prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him"
Sam, I don't care who disagrees with me at Unsealed.org; what is so hard about "After the thousand years are expired" to understand?
To answer your rude and inconsiderate question, you are well aware of views that contest your view, and so it is not a matter of "understanding" the text....it is however a matter of interpretation, and we as well as many others interpret the passage differently than you......I am not going to debate you on this topic, but will refer you to sites which discuss the differences of the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel and Revlelation, feel free to contact me and I will forward you those links where you may debate your views
DeleteThat's too bad, me and I am sure a LOT of people would have loved to hear what you had to say on this particular issue. It would have been nice to be able to hear both sides of the debate on this topic because there are many who believe one side, and there are many who believe the other side. Having these public debates about scripture is very, very good and we need spiritual leaders who are willing to take the time out of their life to discuss these issues instead of just saying message me and I will send you some links. No, be a spiritual leader and discuss these issues in the open for the masses to be able to hear, it will get more people involved and more opening a Bible. I am off to find somewhere else to discuss scripture because it looks like over here instead of using:
DeleteUnconditional Love
Empathy
Honesty
Forgiveness
People here are just more focused on being "right" rather than simply reading/discussing scripture and respectfully debating the interpretation. There is no benefit to sending private messages to links. Read and discuss scripture right here for all to see and inspire as many as possible to open the Bible and read for themselves scripture, so they can gain a better understanding of why we are here on earth and what God wants us to do while here. If you want to learn the Bible I suggest getting three things: A King James Version Bible specifically, a Companion Bible specifically, and the most important of all is to get a Strong's Concordance. With these three you will be able to interpret the Bible on your own from the original language. Find a good Faith based church that reads the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse and give all glory to God. God bless!
Turkey's growing alignment with Russia and Iran is both timely and historically strange... Unless of course you understand that the Bible is true.
ReplyDeleteThe New American Standard Bible changed Eze 38:2 by adding "Rosh" to Meshech and Tubal; Rosh means "Head" as in Rosh Hashanah and has nothing to do with Russia. Likewise, Meshech is not Moscow nor is Tubal referencing Tobolsk. Magog and Tubal are sons of Japheth Gen 10:2
DeleteNeither I nor Gary ascribe Russia to what you have just stated, so the entire premise of your statement is invalid. Again, this is not a site to provoke debates on your preterist views, and to hijack threads.....please take your comments elsewhere where discussions on the pros and cons of preterism are invited
DeleteHoward, we are familiar with your preterist views, and do not agree with you, or preterism. We do not wish to turn this forum into a debate on preterism, and refrain from posting on your site, please honor our request to refrain from deliberate contentiousness. I understand you feel you have a need to correct all the futurists, but please refrain from doing so here, many thanks!
ReplyDeleteNot only is that not my article Howard, but the premise of your statement ascribed to us re Meshech et al is completely false. I believe Russia is Magog for completely different reasons than you made in your statement.
ReplyDeleteThere is another Howard that I confused you with who uses preterism to hijack threads, my apologies for that! That said your view that the Gog of Ezekiel and Revelation are one and the same are disputed by many, and again, I will not debate you on this thread or site. If you wish to continue the discussion, you may contact me and we can debate there. This is the last time I will ask you to refrain from your contentious and condescending demeanor.
ReplyDelete“We will grapple with the Lord God in due season. We shall vanquish Him in His highest heaven.”
ReplyDeleteG. E. Zinoviver, former chairman of the Leningrad Soviet
“If the Israelis threaten us, we will wipe them out within two days. I can assure you our plans are made for this eventuality.”
Soviet Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin
“We will have a war with Russia because Ezekiel 38 and 39 predicts it.”
Former Israeli President Yitzhak Navon, 1993
Don’t be fooled by the sleeping bear. They are a sneaky people, and were never Europeans. Don't think for a moment that Russia does not see Israel as an obstacle for expanding down in the Middle East. Why wouldn’t Russia jump into the attack? Look how they always give aid to the Arabs and now to Iran. If they get ‘hooked’ into a war between Islam vs Israel, they will certainly side with Islam. And Russia goes down there to take goods!
The Covenant of the Anti-Christ must already be in place just before they storm down from up north. Nothing else will leave the Jews with their guard down and be taken by surprise. I wouldn’t want to be the Russian army!
Don’t forget though, this is NOT Armageddon.
Agreed, and thanks for the post......maybe a future thread would be helpful, ie Gog of Ezekiel vs Revelation!
ReplyDeleteIsrael currently can't be considered defenseless by anyone, is surrounded by a lot of walls and gates, and is in a constant state of low-level war, justifiably paranoid about the surrounding countries. That's not Ezekiel 38! We are talking about a country with nuclear deterrent, a country that will unleash its arsenal if facing destruction.
ReplyDeleteA single peace treaty won't be enough to overturn all that. Isaiah 17 would be a more plausible scenario if anything.
I don't think Israel is considered defenseless in Ezekiel 38.....it states that Israel is living securely. It also states that it has unwalled cities....both are true!
DeleteA single peace treaty is plenty to put them at rest after they dispose of the surrounding Palestinians and Syria, Damascus, etc.
DeleteIt is said that they are at peace, not without defenses.
The IDF will need God's assistance when they come down from the north. Otherwise, they won't make it.
I don't know what all the argueing is about here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nowtheendbegins.com/the-bible-believers-guide-to-the-two-different-wars-of-ezekiel-38-and-39/
These two chapter describe two different wars. Ezechiel 38 is NOT Armageddon. Blessings to all of you!
Correct, Annabel. There is a dangerous belief running around, which proposes that Ezekiel's northern invasion is the Battle of Megiddo. This leads people astray to believe that the real Messiah turns up when Russia, Turkey and Iran attack. It is the FALSE Messiah who operates at that battle. It will seem to be the end war, but it's a prelude.
DeleteThe real Messiah turns up at Armageddon, when the whole WORLD assembles. This will include the 'kings of the land of the sun rising' (China, Korea, etc).
Jesus turns up at Armageddon "Valley of Slaughter" and there are no words to describe the slaughter; Antichrist and False Prophet become the 1st residents of the "Lake of Fire" (Rev 19:20), Satan is chained in the Bottomless Pit 1000 Years (Rev 20:2-3) until Gog and Magog (Rev 20:7-8). How about reading the words of the only book which promises a blessing for those to read and heed the prophecy?
ReplyDeleteYou may find this informative:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/world/europe/turkey-russia-missile-deal.html?partner=rss&emc=rss