Emmanuel Macron To Launch 10-Nation Military Coalition Next Month
I'll let you be the judge of who France's new President, Emmanuel Macron, may or may not be, but this certainly piqued my interest:
PARIS — Impatient with German foot-dragging on defense, French President Emmanuel Macron will bring together a 10-nation coalition of the willing next month designed to prepare European armed forces to take action together in emergencies, and to bind Britain into military cooperation as it leaves the EU.
Defense ministers of France, the U.K., Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Denmark and Estonia will sign a letter of intent in Paris in June, officials told me, pledging to develop a common strategic culture, share analysis and foresight on trouble spots that may require intervention and work to coordinate their forces for future operations.
(Source)
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| Macron's European Intervention Initiative |
This map immediately reminded me of a previous 10-nation military alliance that lasted for nearly 60 years called the Western European Union (WEU). The WEU was the focus of much Bible prophecy speculation until its demise in 2011. But it looks as if the old alliance is being reincarnated with eight members the same. The only difference being that Macron's European Intervention Initiative (EII) will have Denmark and Estonia while the WEU had Greece and Luxembourg:
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| The Western European Union's 10 members are shown in red |
In other news, Guatemala has just raised its flag over the country's new embassy in Jerusalem and the facility is on track to open in just two weeks, on May 16th, two days after the U.S. embassy opens.
Very challenging months ahead as the events appear to be on the verge of starting.
ReplyDeleteYes indeed and no matter what happens and how it all unfolds I would encourage us all to be in constant prayer for one another and for the Church at large.
DeleteAmen.
DeletePraying with you! Thank you Gary, this is your really great work! Amen!
DeleteExcellent advice Gary and I join my prayers with all here for the world, our Nation, the Body of Christ and our fellowship here on the internet specifically! Just today I sense in my spirit a loosing of demonic forces coming against all the familiar touch points - anti-semitism, deception in the gospel message and scripture and the character and nature of God. It is coming like a flood this morning and, thankfully, so are the answers and the responses by Holy Spirit. Blessings to All - Prayerfully - Sherry
Deletenone of those countries are mentioned in scripture.now tell me mesopotamic countries and we may have a case.
DeleteAlso there will be No Famine, no destruction, and The man of perdition and all the warnings Yahusha gave us, were fulfilled.Expect no signs from now on.wake UP.WAKE UP Sci Fi Lovers.Messiah will come with no more warnings.while you are expecting signs in the Sky, The prophets are telling us there will be none, but Signs From The heavens.Not The same.The famine will be not of food but spiritaul as Yah told us, and the disciples were telling us no destruction will happen during The tribulation no hair of you will suffer harm.The tribulation is our lifetime.started 2018 years ago.The rev 12 sign from last year is the sign of the beggining of the 42 moths.no one will come and expose the man of perdition which was exposed already.It will Be done By MESSIAH when He returns, It will be too late by then, while you are expecting signs associating daniel prophecies which are not related to revelation.Those were fulfilled already.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSQB5rgva8M
DeleteGary, any chance (or need) to update the Antichrist candidate/speculation list you posted a few years ago? I know it doesn't really affect us, but perhaps there are new candidates to consider? Just wondering.
ReplyDeleteYes, I probably should and I also need to reevaluate and update the Rapture Index Score as someone mentioned on the forum. I was holding out a bit to see where things go in the next two weeks.
DeleteAnyone in particular that has piqued your interest for the candidate list? There are three names that I'm about ready to remove.
Mostly Macron, Erdogan, Kushner, and possibly still Obama. I see the current pope as the false prophet.
Delete-Kushner could deliver the peace plan.
Delete-Macron has just set an initiative for a '10 nation alliance' (as you just reported), among other things you've already posted.
-Erdogan has called for a Extremist-Muslim alliance, and seeks more power, and rules over the Byzantine-era Roman empire.
-Obama's mysteriousness, blasphemous statements, love for Islam(ist Extremism), and current residence near the White House and underhanded attempts to undermine Trump.
That's a solid list and I'd definitely second your thought on the Pope. Interestingly, the Bible says that the man of lawlessness won't be revealed until "the departure" (apostasia in the Greek), so I don't think we will know for sure who he is before we're gone, but the Bible makes no such claim about the false prophet. If I were a betting man I would put my money on Francis. I think he presently has the market cornered.
DeleteThank you, and perhaps those left behind will see your list and realize all the more how much we were trying to warn them...
DeleteGary,
DeleteSince you're asking, "Anyone in particular that has piqued your interest for the candidate list?"
Yes, but I would remove them all.
"We" (myself included) have been wrong too many times, date setting for one, so much so that such a list (and I'm saying this with all due respect and out of humility) strains credibility. Could it give doubters ammunition? I think so. Does it hold to your mission? Does it properly reflect the gospel message of Jesus Christ and us as saints? [ I'll leave those for you to answer. ]
I would suggest (and rather see) a scripturally based review of the "qualities" that mark the AC. A "Know Your Enemy" list if you will. It is a message that is RARELY preached and, I believe, pertinent to the mission of this website.
The quality of your work and that of your team is far too good to have anything that might detract from it. For all I know you've already posted such an article and I've missed it!
Just my two cents and THANK YOU for all that you do!
Pastor Rich
@Pastor Rich (and Gary), With equal due respect and humility, I'd have to say I agree with you... We don't know man's heart. We COULD be terribly wrong. Knowing your enemy in a, not-necessarily-exhaustive-list may be the more Christ-like thing to do. Pastor Rich, the Holy Spirit spoke through you to say make such a suggestion, and He spoke through me to realize it, I can't help but have to agree with you.
DeleteGary, you are far wiser than I, (the content of this wonderful site is evidence of that), I'm sure the Holy Spirit will work through you to compile something of utmost effectiveness for anyone to use to their advantage, whether it includes names or not.
Thank you both, Gary and Pastor Rich, and may God bless you both!
Characteristics and nature really rings a cord with me. I know its a lot more work, but would probably be more beneficial to those who are younger in the faith and less likely to have them "pin the tail on the donkey". Would it be wrong to include a list of candidates? Not sure about that - much to pray about. Gary, you hear the voice and I know you'll do what He wants and that is all that matters! Blessings - Sherry
DeleteGood thoughts all and I respect the different, valuable views presented. I don't take a hard line either way because I think there is tension in Scripture about this.
DeleteOne thing I definitely won't do is categorically identify the AC before we fly away. Jeff has also presented a pretty strong case that we should understand "prince" in Daniel 9 as the same way it's used elsewhere in Daniel - a supernatural being. In this sense Rev. 17:10-11 should be taken literally and the AC could very well be an ancient figure like Nimrod who shows up after the rapture of the Church.
I'm open to several possibilities.
It's interesting you mention Nimrod as the ancient fertility cults were based on the idea of the rebirth and return of Nimrod. I have some references I can dig up on that topic and post here...
DeletePR
Author Michael Lake writes a compelling book about Nimrod and Babylon in his book The Shinar Directive.
DeleteYes, very compelling - interesting read!
DeleteI second the idea of some "alien(ated)" Nimrod being but how can we know today if not someone of these well-known candidates already has got e.g. his DNA altered to increase his power or prolongue his life etc?
DeleteWe have still to consider that the (political) antichrist world leader as a person / human being and Satan are two distinct entities (we know that as both are sent to hell separately, after Armageddon Satan being jailed for another 1,000 years but the other guy in hell already), although Satan reigns 'through' the AC person just like he went INTO Judas to posess and control him completely (like the hand acts indepentantly in a glove which would be the AC body then). The word for it in John 13:27 is EISERCHOMAI G1525.
My friend you are asking the wrong question to the wrong person.They banned me before, they hate me because Of The messiah's true name Yahusha and for defending truth over lies, that are being spread all over the internet.Do You want to know the Antichrist?who The man of perdition is?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF5M2jK3J6w
DeleteThe Antichrist most likely will be Jewish to be accepted as the false messiah.
ReplyDeleteWhoa!
ReplyDeleteOr, woe?
A miscellaneous note on the Antichrist:
ReplyDelete* * *
3Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction. (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
* * *
I have talked to people who seem to have the idea that this verse means the Antichrist must be virtually unknown prior to being "revealed" (i.e. "revealed" via an event that can be none other than the abomination of desolation, the Antichrist's cotillion, as it were). In my opinion, however, this notion is not as well supported by Scripture as some seem to think.
The Greek word translated "revealed" is "apokalupto," and it means to reveal something that has been hidden or covered (same as the English word "revealed"). And just like the word "revealed, it is used in two different senses:
1. To reveal something in the sense of "first you don't see it, then you do."
Ex. "The magician revealed a chihuahua from his hat."
2. To reveal the true or inner (previously hidden) nature of something.
Ex. "It was later revealed that the magician was allergic to rabbits."
In fact, it is this latter sense that is the primary usage of the word in the Bible. So, a perfectly normal, straightforward way to interpret 2 Thessalonians 2:3 would be something like this:
"Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed for who he really is, even though he may already be well known."
I'm not saying it's wrong to interpret this passage to mean the Antichrist will not be well known prior to the Rapture, but when you look at what the word in the Greek actually means, you see that it certainly doesn't have to be that way.
Well said.
DeleteGood thoughts Greg.
DeleteIt's one of those things that I don't take a hard line on from either end because I believe there is just enough tension on the subject in Scripture to keep us guessing.
The Man of perdition is an Image not a man. second The Transgression of desolation needs to be understood, which christianity disregards. and The Abomination is commited by the image. Do me a favor Watch the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF5M2jK3J6w
DeleteDaniel 11:37..."Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. Macron, Obama, Kushner, and Erdogan are all married. I think this verse leads many to think that the AC will not be a married man.
ReplyDeleteObama is married to a dude, so he’s still a candidate ;-)
DeleteHe's also married to the eternal first lady according to Michelle Obama: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michelle-obama-first-lady-temple-university_us_5aead1c5e4b022f71a05678f
Delete:p
Married does not mean "affection" or "love" in regard to the "elitists". There "marriages" are sometimes planned by political strategies of the bloodline to facilitate their agenda to further world government.
DeleteAlso don't forget the other thought angle on this passage authored by those who posit an Assyrian ac. I don't agree with their thinking because I believe The Assyrian is a reference to those who are "evil who come against Israel", not necessarily an identification of nationality, but I can't be dogmatic. Daniel 11:37 "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all."They have posited quite sensibly, the reference is not a sexual reference solely, it could also be a reference to the Islamic take on women which sees them as property only, thus their desires (for anything) do not matter. If you further take into consideration the Arabs came from Abram and Hagar, then their adoption of Allah is the departure from the God of "their" fathers "Abram" and his Hebrew descendants. The part I have the most difficulty with in this approach is the acceptance by Israel of a Muslim. But, didn't we just do that in America? If anyone had proposed 20 years ago it could never happen in America I'm pretty sure most of us would have been on the sign up sheet in agreement it was impossible. Yet, it occurred by deception. Why could it not be the same - not implying its the same individual - just saying the same or another deception could occur in Israel to have them accept him. Remember, MOST of Israel is highly secular. They have returned apostate and the covenant with "the many" tells us plainly there will be "a Remnant" who will not accept this covenant or its maker. No matter how I look at things, so often I come back to it's not always either/or but much of the time its both/and. Just food for munching! Blessings - Sherry
DeleteThe "desire of women" is the Babylonian TAMMUZ (today = Roman Catholic Baby Jesus figure), they are weeping for him in Ezechiel 8:14 which is an abomination for God.
DeleteWhat a week this has been. I bet Mossad ball caps are selling like crazy.
ReplyDeleteAnyone take note of the Google doodle today in celebration of Georges Melies?
ReplyDeleteSome interesting imagery in the video there for these very times.
I've updated this article to draw a comparison between the 10-nation WEU that ceased to exist in 2009. Check out the maps.
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about my list for the Antichrist. I do know Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23. Maybe we should add our own name's to the list. Either way I think the more we seek the more is revealed. I truly believe that we are entering into a time of revealing. Heads up, watching, and still running the race... Thanks Gary, God bless.
ReplyDeleteI need to understand the general opinion here on whom the group is at the end of 2 Thessalonians 2:1 where it says "and by our gathering unto him."
DeleteI hear different opinions of who these people are. I feel these are the raptured saints at Christ's coming.
Please elaborate if a different view is perceived. Thanks@
Agreed. Christian saints.
DeleteThe context AND the existance of a letter prior to this one makes it clear referring to the "gathering" of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 = rapture!
DeletePastor Rick...Thanks. Ok, we agree that verse one is the raptured saints, where they are gathering together unto him. Then keeping this all in context, verse 2 has Paul reassuring the Thessalonians not to be worried that the day of the Lord is at hand. Verse 3 continues on saying" Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first......pause ......I read here that "departure" is used in place of the KJV's version of "falling away". I have always felt this to mean "falling away"from the faith, or "departing from" the faith....but not meaning just "departing which is taken here as rapture. But, let's say it is indeed meaning "rapture." That brings up a conundrum in my reading Paul as saying....1."Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by our RAPTURE...2. That ye be not soon shaken in mind, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand...3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a RAPTURE first, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition......
ReplyDeleteThat just doesn't fit. It's saying the rapture must not happen until the rapture happens ...
It has always flowed smooth through my head if Paul is saying in verse 1....the rapture won't happen..verse 2..dont be troubled as that day is at hand...verse 3...until there is a falling away first, AND the man of sin is revealed.
Just trying to get across my simple logic here ,and I emphasized the word AND, which means in addition to...the man of sin is revealed.
I can't see this any other way than there will be a falling away of the church..AND the man of sin ALSO has to be revealed.
That's been my view letting all three scriptures speak clearly in the context they all should be read in.
May God bless further discussion here.
Okay, bear with me while I finish my work and then I'll address this with prayer, K-cups and my Bibles! : )
Delete2 Thessalonians 2:1 is speaking to the Christian brothers in Thessalonica. Verse two is a warning to beware of false teachings. Verse three continues this warning to beware and adds conditions on which that day will come,
Delete"For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction..."
The Greek renders this,
2.2 FOR - NOT QUICKLY TO BE SHAKEN YOU FROM THE MIND NOR TO BE ALARMED, NEITHER BY A SPIRIT NOR BY A WORD NOR BY A LETTER AS [IF] BY US, AS [IF] THAT HAS COME THE DAY OF THE LORD.
2.3 [LET] NOT ANYONE DECEIVE~YOU BY(IN) ANY WAY; BECAUSE UNLESS COMES THE APOSTASY(REBELLION) FIRST AND BE REVEALED THE MAN - OF LAWLESSNESS, THE SON OF DESTRUCTION
The falling away or "departing from" as you shared above is not a reference to the rapture but of apostasy. The falling away of the Church. The departure from faith is the apostasy of the Church. This is the departure from God in Christ.
The key word here is "ἀποστασία" being (apostasia) Strong's Greek #646, a feminine noun, meaning defection, apostasy, revolt.
There is no connection of "ἀποστασία" to Strong's Greek #726 being "ἁρπάζω" harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away.
So I think replacing "ἀποστασία" with "ἁρπάζω" is where your problem is coming from. You're right in that it doesn't make sense and I would submit that it's because of the proper translation of the word "ἀποστασία".
Keep in mind I am not a Greek scholar (yet) [meant tongue in cheek] as my focus is on Hebrew, but a close examination of these words in their original languages helps. Here's a good source for further study,
http://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/2-3.htm
I hope this helps!
Pastor Rich
There's definitely a lot to unpack in 2 Thess. 2, but I find this to be one of the stronger pre-trib passages imho.
DeleteHere are a few thoughts: http://unsealed.boards.net/post/11038
Blessings.
Thanks for the link Gary! Will dig into that as it looks very interesting!
DeleteI see where the link is going with the use of "aphistémi" v "apostasia" and although they bear close resemblance to each other, I believe they have different meanings per context with "apostasia" being very specifically spiritual defection.
DeleteHere's a quick outline based on (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) which I hope I haven't messed-up as time is short for me now, (no pun intended!)
1. Lawlessness by the activity of Satan
2. God sends a "strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false"
3. Rebellion (Spiritual defection, apostasy)
4. The restrainer is removed
5. The man of lawlessness is revealed
6. He takes his seat in the temple proclaiming himself God
7. "...the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth"
Gary is right, there is a LOT to unpack here. Too much for the little time I have to dedicate to it right now. Too much for this limited space.
Blessings,
PR
"I believe they have different meanings per context"
DeleteYes, exactly! That's important in my understanding. Context determines the meaning of both words. Apostasia is the noun form of aphistémi and that's a strong reason I think it's a stretch to say it *must* mean apostasy. Apostasy is a transliteration, after all. A direct translation to English would necessarily be "departure," but the question is, does it have to be a departure from faith *only* or can it carry a variety of meanings based on context.
The context of 2 Thess. 2 is the gathering together of believers to Christ. The purpose given by Paul is to relieve the fears of the Christians in Thessalonica who had been told by someone that the Day of the LORD had begun.
Remember that apostasia is only used twice in the NT. In the other passage the context defines the word as departure from the faith.
That being said, I do respect your view. There are several pre-trib proponents who believe 2 Thess. 2:3 refers to a final defection (John Walvoord, J.D. Farag).
Last thing: there *are* classical Greek examples of apostasia referring to spatial departure.
I would like to throw in another point which translations other than KJV have made confusing. Verse 2 should be rendered the Day of Christ, and verse 3 as the Day of the Lord. I do not profess to be a Greek Scholar, but standing on the shoulders of those who are this is what I derived from their discussions.
DeleteNote KJV renders these verses correctly, where other versions conflate the 2 references to be The Day of the Lord. The Rapture occurs at the Day of Christ pointed to in verse 2 and the Day of the Lord in verse 3 is the commencement of The Tribulation. These are two separate distinct occurrences as defined by Paul here. First there will come an apostasia defined as a falling away from the faith by many. The word apostasia, translated as falling away, can mean either a falling away or departure from (the earth). It is entirely likely this is a double entendre, dual meaning, and is intended to convey both. The Double and Triple Entendre is a literary device used often in Scripture.
I hope my tiny hat into the ring is helpful. Blessings - Sherry
Gary, Thank you for that!
DeleteLooking deeper here are the occurrences of the word(s) in question "ἀποστασίαν" and "ἀποστασία",
ἀποστασίαν (apostasian)
Acts 21:21 N-AFS
GRK: σοῦ ὅτι ἀποστασίαν διδάσκεις ἀπὸ
NAS: the Gentiles to forsake Moses,
KJV: the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying
INT: you that apostasy you teach from
http://biblehub.com/greek/apostasian_646.htm
"ἀποστασία" (apostasia)
2 Thessalonians 2:3 N-NFS
GRK: ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον καὶ
NAS: you, for [it will not come] unless the apostasy comes
KJV: there come a falling away first,
INT: shall have come the apostasy first and
Source: http://biblehub.com/greek/apostasia_646.htm
Note the subtle difference in the parts of speech and usage. Here is a link to understand their parts of speech coding,
http://biblehub.com/abbrev.htm
My two cents on "falling away" or "departure". It doesn't make sense to me translated as the "falling away". The gospel is replete with examples of people turning away from Christ. One could argue that the call to save Barabas was THE great apostasy. The event resulted in Jesus' crucifixion after all. Of course we know that it was all planned before the foundations were laid.
DeleteThe "falling away" seems to suggest that it will be a singular event. What will signify this event? (Date, time, place, and reason). To say THE "great apostasy" makes it sound, to me, like it happens on one day, at one moment in time. Revelation describes multiple judgements (seals, bowls, and trumpets), and very often, scripture says something to the effect of "the ones who refused to worship the Lord....", meaning that people will still be making choices right up till Christ's return. If that's so, it would seem that THE "great apostasy" is a number specific event. How many will determine that A particular apostasy will be THE apostasy? 500, 5000, 50,0000??
The passage goes on to talk about the restrainer being removed, so "departure" makes sense there as well. II Thess also mentions the appearance of the "lawless one" will be according to Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders...
For that reason, God sends a strong delusion, which sounds to me, like it occurs AFTER the apostasy (whatever meaning you pick)....so, the apostasy couldn't be blamed on or tied to the strong delusion. However, the strong delusion could be sent to those remaining after a "departure". (to explain it away maybe)
However, I am far from an Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic scholar, so I could be totally off base. I have to use the "does it make sense" test, but we see through a glass dimly. It's all in the details, and the old adage is that "the devil is in the details". The truth to that adage is this...so is our God, and He was there way before him. Either way, I think we're about to find out...hopefully!!!
Blessings all
Sherry/All, My Greek NT renders 2:2 as, "...HAS COME THE DAY OF THE LORD" with 2.3 not having direct reference to the Day.
Delete2.3 does read,
"BECAUSE UNLESS COMES THE APOSTASY FIRST AND BE REVEALED THE SIN OF DESTRUCTION"
Some texts include,
"BECAUSE UNLESS COMES THE APOSTASY FIRST AND BE REVEALED {THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS,} THE SIN OF DESTRUCTION"
Have you ever considered this? That when it speaks of the End Times, 1 Thess is speaking to the Church, 2 Thess to the Jews. 1 Corinth to the Church, 2 Corinth to the Jews. Same with Peter and Timothy.
DeleteAlso, have you considered that rather than just one Rapture, there is actually two events...the ESCAPE of the Bride (Luke 21:36) and the Rapture of the Church (1 Thess. 4:16) These two events are not at the same time. The ESCAPE is Pre Trib, and the Rapture of the Church is after the 6th Seal....we see the multitude in Rev 7:9. We also know that most of the Church is either asleep, lukewarm, false doctrine, has the jezebel spirit, forgot their first works, etc. But the Bride is Watching and Praying always to ESCAPE all these thing which shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Who stands before Jesus? His Bride! Luke is speaking to the Bride...Mark to the Church, and Matthew to the Jews. Why is that most everyone teaches a rapture from Matthew???
And when people cannot agree on a PRE TRIB or MID TRIB, it's because they are all right! Where does it say there is only ONE event?
Luke 12:37,38 - "Blessed are those servants, whom the LORD when He cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that He shall gird Himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
And if he shall come in the SECOND watch, or come in the THIRD watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants."
So, we see Jesus Himself will serve the FIRST WATCH group....who does He serve? His BRIDE! The SECOND group (Church, raptured mid trib), and the THIRD group (Jews, not raptured, Jesus come at end of Trib) are also blessed, but Jesus does NOT serve.
The Bride is the FIRSTFRUITS of the Church and not the WHOLE church. The Bride is a tithe, ONE TENTH of the Church. This is brought before the LORD as a firstfruits offering.
1 John 2:19 - "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were NOT ALL OF US."
There are three harvests mentioned in the Bible: Barley, Wheat, Grapes
Jesus is the FIRSTFRUITS of the DEAD (Barley)
BRIDE is the FIRSTFRUITS of the CHURCH (Wheat)
144,000 are the FIRSTFRUITS of the Jews (Grapes)
The BRIDE will NOT be here for the AC or for the falling away, because they will ESCAPE ALL these things. But the Church WILL be here...imagine the Revival that will happen when the rest of the Church will see 1 tenth of the Church disappear! Yes, the HARVEST is great, but the laborers are few...because the Holy Spirit has taken the Bride. No laborers...but pray ye that the Lord of Harvests raise up laborers.
God is in charge of the Jews (Old covenant)
Jesus is in charge of the (New covenant at passover, by His blood)
Holy Spirit is in charge of the BRIDE (The Spirit and the Bride say, Come!)
Oh, and trib period isn't only 7 years....see these two groups and events in 2 Corinth 12:2-4....
Blessings to you.
Kind of interesting his name is Emmanuel
ReplyDeleteGood find Suzanne, I totally did not pick up on that. Interesting to say the least!
DeleteJohn C.
Pastor Rick...I replied, but replied in the wrong section.
DeleteBasically I said my original question was who are these people Paul is speaking to in 2Thessalonians2:1....and I mentioned I thought they were raptured saints ....to which your very first word was "agreed". I took that as having common ground and then proceeded with my long post.
I appreciate your sincere answer, but am having big problems going back and reading it. To me it is as you say Paul talking "to" the Thessalonians ...but he is talking clearly about our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering unto him. This gathering has to be raptured saints. Do you agree with that clearer question?
I am agreeing that yes, Paul is indeed speaking to the Thessalonians , and the topic is about Christ and our gathering unto him.
Stan, Just to be clear as I think this through...
Delete"...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him..." Emphasis, "our being gather together" is all those brothers in Thessalonica who are in Christ (as is Paul). This unity imparts oneness as does "being gathered together". Unity, oneness. The Body of Christ. We are talking about individuals who are the Body of Christ in their day. They would be raptured saints if they did not see death.
So yes, Paul is addressing the Church in Thessalonica on the topic of our being gathered together as the Body of Christ "on that day" and that these saints (if they never saw death) would be raptured saints.
When I say that he was talking "to" the Thessalonians, I assumed Paul was talking to the Body of Christ, the Church and not the general populace of Thessalonica. All apologies if that was unclear.
I think we're on the same page thus far...
One more note...
Delete(2 Thessalonians 1:1)
Here Paul clearly states who he is addressing in his letter,
"To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"
Excellent Point Suzanne - that had gone right over my head.
DeleteWhat's even more interesting is all of his given names and their meanings:
DeleteEmmanuel: God With Us
Jean: Gift from God
Michael: Who is like God?
Frederick: Peaceful Ruler
Macron: A Printed Mark
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot count the UK as one country as there are four countries that make of the United Kingdom. The math just doesn't work.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but the UK is the Kingdom United is it not? I think this quote puts it well,
Delete"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK) consists of a group of islands off the western coast of Europe. The largest, Great Britain, comprises three countries: England, Scotland and Wales. Ireland, to the west, consists of the UK's province of Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic"
Source: thecommonwealth.org/our-member-countries/united-kingdom
The Commonwealth, as a matter of fact, is 53-countries yet working together. I think we're being called to understand these things in most basic terms of spirit and organisation. A body not body parts if you will...
Just a thought!
PR
Pastor Rick....I really appreciate your reply and feel the sincerity behind your words.
ReplyDeleteI hate discussing my views as I am not trying to debate, but only find common ground. The ONLY reason I typed that long post was that when you go back and read my first question...asking who are these people in the last words of 2Thess2:1.....and I then commented that I thought these were the raptured saints...and then I asked anyone to elaborate "IF" a different view is perceived.
You then quickly came back with saying "agreed" to my saying they were the raptured saints.
That reluctantly drew me in as I thought we had common ground by my definition of what "agreed" means.
So I typed that long post, which I never would have as I refuse to debate here, just seeking out common ground. I asked for anyone's to elaborate if they perceived my feeling of whom those people are. Had you posted what you just did, that would have been the end of it.
I really don't want to waste your valuable time and mine , both exchanging enough words how to build a clock, yet neither of us convincing the other how much time we have.
Thanks for your appreciated effort and I will ponder your words. God bless.
Brother, I don't feel I have wasted my time and I enjoy sharing and discussing these things. My point is not to sway you from your belief, interpretation or thinking, it is just that we can talk, share and discuss that which is dear to us both. The LORD and His word.
DeleteThere is so much mystery sewn into the narrative that we cannot live by printed word alone. (..or a single verse of Scripture!) As you know, we must live by the Spirit and all the Word. This is why healthy discussion is so important. We gather in fellowship and talk and in doing so open doors for us to encounter G-d -- allowing Him to work in and through us.
Trust me as I want to understand where you are coming from too and value your sharing. So don't consider me to be in debate mode. I'm not. Sharing truth is fruitful! I'm with you on common ground!
You hit on a good one and I think it is important -- worthy of unpacking!
PR
Stan, Take a look at the outline I provided above. I am re-reading your long post and will try to fill-in some parts not covered by me earlier.
DeleteOverall, I'm seeing a lot of common ground but I should review your posting to make sure I'm getting your drift. (Too many distractions for me at the moment)
PR
LanceM dear friend I think you've given the most logic and plausible explanation after all, Thank You! :) No problem to me, I've always understood it this way. The context is so clear indeed. I think what is missing in the church is more of some imagination and JD Farag like teaching about WHAT KIND OF event the rapture will be: global, terrifying, shocking! and what MUST be the consequences when ANGELS are released from the pit, Satan comes down on earth and the Holy Spirit is ABSENT for a while. I notice a veritable lack of imagination here, life will absolutely NOT go on like before on earth when all that happens. I can also see no contradiction between one part of people "departing" and the other (majority) part of population "falling away from faith" at the SAME TIME the rapture triggers BOTH. Blessings to you!
ReplyDeleteSimple question just a lil off topic. Forgive me for being behind you all in these matters. My faith in Christ is strong and was weaved into my life by my mother. I keep trying to reach my family ( as when my kids were young I didn't teach them as I should) im at a point where bringing up the Lord or the Bible creates such tension that I dare not continue doing it. 5 grandkids that are the light of my life ( along with Jesus) here's a stupid question but I have to ask it? Do I go behind the parents back and speak to these kids aged fr 3- 10? Or do I trust that the less they know the safer they are. We have been talking years and month now we're talking days and weeks. I fear greatly for the older ones. Sorry to be so off topic but I need help! Thanks all and God bless you all
ReplyDeleteMark,
ReplyDeletePlease know that I will be praying for you as I hope all of your brothers and sisters here do as well. Family can be some of the hardest to reach, much harder than strangers even. But we are not without hope.
99% of what comes next is what I'm sure you're already doing...
For your part I would continue in specific and targeted daily prayer. Morning, noon and night kind of prayer! Fast! Fast and pray that your family would soften their hearts and that doorways would be opened. Pay extra attention to how you lead your family and that it clearly reflects our Father's love. It's in the little things and the natural way that you share your faith through your daily living. Not by what you say but by what you do.
It's not preaching. It's all in the living.
Seek truth and make sure they know you love them as they are for who they are.
Does your family trust you with their problems? Do they share the trials of daily life? Encourage this and be ready to listen. Listen to what they have to say and most importantly what the Spirit has to say.
My experience with people close to us revolves around listening and not preaching. They know that I have different beliefs than they do. I don't try to push G-d on them, but what I do is reflect His love and patience in a way that develops relationship and trust. We have greater traction when we have a strong relationship based upon trust. In that I keep an eye out for the right time to share; even praying in my soul about the right time to suggest the LORD. It is usually in a time of great personal crisis.
Is familial strife or conflict standing in the way? Are there things that need to be talked about, confessed or forgiven? These walls need to be addressed in humility. The contrite heart is dear to the LORD. Be that guy!
Here is a resource that I have used,
http://truepeacefoundhere.org/
True Peace Found Here - The Gospel Within Ministries
This simple website is designed as a Q&A to help visitors come to their own conclusions on eternity. I recommend visiting and studying the structure and questions to make them your own. Their strategy is based upon these core ideas:
1. If God was to ask you, when you die, "Why should I let you into my heaven?" What would you tell Him?
2. What is the one thing that would keep you out of heaven?
3. Do you remember what God said the penalty is for sin?
4. Why did Jesus come into the world?
The idea being that if you (meaning you Mark) "say" it they can doubt it. If they "say" it themselves, it's true. This is why I say lead them in truth.
We know what G-d has written on all our hearts. We only need to help others see that for themselves. It's not something we can tell them. They have to see it. (I did!)
The website is part of a Christian ministry led by a husband and wife team who started a Block Ministry Strategy in South Central Los Angeles, California for sharing the gospel and establishing prayer groups in neighbourhoods. It works! It's very foundational and grass roots and can open doors to winning your block to Christ or even start missional or small groups. Even church plants. Good stuff!
See them online at,
http://www.thegospelwithin.com/home.aspx
The Gospel Within Ministries
We cannot lead out of fear. We have to lead gently out of love with sensitivity to that which is going on inside of others. Resistance is natural. We have to love through it all and trust in the LORD that He will bring the catalyst for real inward change when the time is right. Listen and love reflecting Christ always and look for the Lord's prompting when to speak and when to listen.
Keep a weather eye and an open door praying always for love's sake.
Above all be yourself and stay rooted in the LORD Jesus!
You have my daily prayers,
Pastor Rich
Related to the above...What if...
DeleteWhat if you and your wife were away at a wedding. Your 16-year old daughter stayed instead of going. While you were away a pair of strangers broke into your home, kidnapped and brutally raped your daughter.
You return from the wedding to find not only what happened but who did it -- at which you go to the authorities. The local authorities respond by finding the perpetrators guilty and sentence them to 100 sit-ups and a $750 fine.
After serving their sentence these angry men come to your home with over a dozen of their friends, severely beat you and your wife for lodging the complaint and set your daughter on fire burning her alive.
This is not fiction and just happened in India,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-44016176
India Girl, 16, Burnt Alive After Jharkhand Rape
Ask the casual non-believer; how does this make you feel? Is it wrong? If so, why? On what basis do we judge this wrong?
Casual non-believer, When you boil it all down to the most basic component, on what do we as human beings base our moral standards and laws? Why do we feel innately a sense of justice and outrage? What is the basis for that? Is it the same thing that our laws are based upon?
Some basic questions as we approach the question of there being a living GOD that is active and vital to our lives. Some basic questions as we explore the reason "why" we believe the way we do and think the way we do.
What is the innate (built-in) source that is universal in humanity that seeks justice and determines right from wrong? What makes us need love? Why do we seek compassion and community?
These are fundamental Truths and on the path that leads to our Creator.
My heart grieves these stories. I cannot imagine the pain that this family is going through right now.
LORD, I pray, comfort them in their hour of unimaginable pain. Bless them with an angel messenger to minister to them and hear their grief. Wrap them in Your love, powerfully so, and if You will, save them by Your merciful grace.
In Jesus Name I pray. Amen.
People are concerned a list of possible AC will lead people astray, yet they are not concerned that teaching a 7 year tribulation period won't???
ReplyDeletePlease consider that the trib period is NOT only 7 years...nowhere does it say that...see 2 Corinth 12:2-4...not only that, but Jacob served 7 years for Rachel, 7 for Leah...and there are plenty of other exams of this 14 year period...Noah let the dove out for 14 days...before it found dry land...
There is nowhere in the Bible that shows a 7 year period...and the time, times, and half a time, the 42 months, and the 1260 days are not one and the same...they are independent of each other and this is why they are written differently.
Consider also that rather than the "rapture" of the Church (who is asleep, lukewarm, false doctrine, forgot their first works, etc), we are awaiting the ESCAPE of the BRIDE (Luke 21:36). The Bride will leave pre trib, NOT the whole Church.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: But they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19
If the Bride is taken pre trib, then when does the Church leave? After the 6th seal...the Church is seen in Rev. 7:9. So, that's mid trib....before the Wrath of the Lamb. Many people can't agree on pre trib, or mid trib...but they are all right!
"Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when He cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
And if He shall come in the second watch (Church), or come in the third (Jews, not raptured, Jesus second coming) watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants." Luke 12:37-38
Notice how He only serves the FIRST watch group...Jesus serves the BRIDE! The second and third watch groups are also blessed.
Also, explain Psalm 90:10 if the Trib period is only 7 years? How's that fit in?....it doesn't. Nobody can explain the ten years that I have found...if they are waiting for the "rapture" to happen soon...at Israel's 70 years.
But Psalm 90:10 fits with a 14 year trib period.
A generation is 70 years, but by reason of strength, it is 80, but those 10 years are with labour and sorrow, and we FLY AWAY. So, 10 years of trib, before the Jews fly away...if you look at Rev. 12:16 we see the woman fly into the wilderness for last 3.5 years...that's 13.5...but remember the half hour of silence? 6mos...14 years!
How come everybody teaches 7 years, but I cant make sense of how things fit...all the seals, trumpets, or vials...it doesn't make sense.
Please consider watching YouTube channel MINISTRY revealed...excellent Holy Spirit led teaching.
Bless you all.
Hi Disciple Tabitha - I'm not very knowledgeable about this topic, but what is God's purpose for having His church endure the Tribulation? Also, I thought the Bride and the Church are one in the same. They're not?
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Just Learning
I am not a servant I am a son. To suggest that there is a difference between members of the body of Christ is either suggesting that the blood of Christ cleansed one more than the other, "God is not a respecter of persons" or that the blood is not sufficient and there is something that I must do to earn my place in the body of Christ, "if it is of works it is no longer of grace". This is not about me and it's not about you it is HIS story. The purpose of our very existence is to magnify the name of Jesus Christ. MARANATHA!
ReplyDeleteKing James Bible
ReplyDeleteI considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. Daniel 7:8
This is talking about the 10 Nation Union. Notice that Macron is developing a 10 nation Military. So, the Antichrist will have to come out of the 10 Nation Union. Whether it be Macron, I don't know.
Just make sure to understand that post-trib or pre-trib is not a salvation issue, however it does need to be addressed because all prophetic fulfillment are converging to indicate that we are approaching the Final Seven Years before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, it affects the mindset of the church, and the church should be preparing for great revival and evangelism. There is a danger however of this incorrect belief. People who believe very strongly in pre-tribulation rapture could easily fall for the Mark of the Beast since they believe that it comes after the rapture. Here is what the Bible says: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” ~Matthew 24:29-31 Notice Jesus said, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days… Who are “the elect”? “elect” is mentioned in the New Testament 13 times but never referred to as the Jews. If you read Colossians 3:12, Romans 8:33, and Romans 11:7, all point to the elect being “The Church”. Who is the Church? All who have been born again in Christ Jesus. Revelation 11:15 talks about the last trump and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 says claims that we will be raptured at the last trump. Revelation 11:18-19 goes on to talk about the events that will occur at the last trump. I would have typed out the verses, but I am currently typing with one hand due to shoulder surgery. I really hope this helps. Have a blessed day!
ReplyDeleteI wanted to add the 2 separate accounts of the two simultaneous harvests:
ReplyDeleteMatthew 13:24-30 “Wheat and the Tares”
As you read these verses keep in mind that The good seed= The children of the kingdom, The tares = Children of the wicked one, The enemy = The devil, The harvest = End of the world (age), The reapers = The angels. Jesus said that the children of God and the children of the wicked one will be harvested at the same time. At the last trump.
Revelation 14:14-20 As you read make sure to keep in mind that this is the harvest of the earth, harvest of the wheat which is the rapture (14-16).
Keep in mind that the later part is the harvest of the tares. This is referring to the Battle of Armageddon. “The blood came out of the wine press, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.” =160 miles. Armageddon is referred to as a wine press.
This is God’s word, which says that the rapture and God’s wrath will occur simultaneously. So, if we believe that Armageddon will occur when Jesus returns, then we have to say that the rapture will occur the same time.
Also remember “Our Lord’s Prayer”… “Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven.”
His Kingdom is coming here. We will then crown Him Lord of Lords, King of Kings. Amen!
Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. In God we trust not mankind. Christians need to keep their eyes on Jesus Christ as we witness the last days.
ReplyDeleteGuys it is 3/10/2021-Macron in my opinion is the A.C. & ALLOT HAS HAPPENED SINCE YOU GUYS POSTED THIS STUFF ALMOST 3 YRS AGO-GOD SPEED
ReplyDelete