One Road to Heaven, Two Roads to Hell
What is the faith we proclaim?
Christ died for our sins and rose again.
Who is Christ?
He is God’s only begotten Son, the Chosen One, the Anointed.
What is the one road to Heaven?
Christ alone through faith alone.
The road to Heaven is Christ Himself (Jn. 14:6). There is no other way (Jn. 3:18, 3:36; 8:24; 10:9; Acts 4:12; 16:30–31; Rm. 6:23; 1 Tim. 2:5–6; 1 Jn. 5:11–12; cf. Mt. 7:13–14; 11:27). The only reason you can have eternal life is because Christ died for your sins and rose again. And that atonement is applied to your account through faith.
I’ve written a number of articles demonstrating that many people are deceived on both ends of the religious and political spectrum. They are so busy attacking one another they’ve missed the forest for the trees. Rather than go into detail here, I thought I would just show you a perfectly timed example of what I mean from an article published today entitled Pope Benedict ‘plotting downfall of Pope Francis’ in bombshell Vatican coup. Two popes are duking it out in the shadows and each one perfectly typifies one of the roads that will definitely not lead you to Heaven. To be clear, I am not making a judgment about the personal salvation of either one (Rm. 10:1–9), but am stating that the message of salvation each one proclaims is not the message from God’s holy word.
There is one road to Heaven, which is Christ Himself, but there are two roads to hell:
The first road to hell is walked by those who say Christ isn’t enough. These are the legalists within Christianity who preach a message counter to sola fide (“faith alone”), sola gratia (“grace alone”), and solus Christus (“Christ alone”). They may give outward homage to Christ, but inwardly they’re trying to usurp His glory (so they also oppose soli Deo gloria for that matter). Salvation belongs entirely to the LORD (Ps. 37:39; 62:7; Isa. 43:11; 45:21; Hos. 13:4; Rev. 7:10; 19:1), yet they think their filthy rags play a part. They may agree that Jesus died for their sins in some sense, but their real faith is in themselves—in their works, behavior, zeal, asceticism, or adherence to some standard other than God’s standard of absolute perfection. They establish moral standards that make them feel confident and secure, while using the same standards to condemn others. Their confidence is not in Christ—He’s just a sidenote.
This road is also walked by the legalists in other religions who try to earn the Divine’s favor, ultimately placing their fate in their own hands by creating a ladder to Heaven of their own design.
These legalists, both within and outside of Christianity, are trying to work their way to eternal life. Their self-derived labor is as effective at winning God’s favor as a child’s eager attempts to jump will get him to the moon. Pope Emeritus Benedict, in his staunch defense of the twisted-gospel message of traditional, post-Trent Roman Catholic works-righteousness, is a poster boy for man’s efforts to reach God.
These are the modern Pharisees. They believe in the necessity of faith, but don’t understand what that faith should be placed in. They adhere to faith without grace.
The second road to hell is traveled on by all of those who believe that Christ isn’t needed. Consider for a moment how many disparate groups could fall into this category: universalists, atheists, deists, various factions within Progressive Christianity, and so forth. Pope Francis seems to be right there among them with his suggestions that those who willfully reject Christ can still be saved, and his promotion of the idea that everyone is a child of God (cf. Jn. 1:12; Gal. 3:26; Rm. 8:14; 1 Jn. 3:10).
These are the modern Sadducees. They believe in tolerance and kindness, but reject the necessity of faith. Like the Pharisees, they don’t understand that Christ is the only way. The Pharisees say “Christ plus something else.” The Sadducees say “Christ and everything else.” The Sadducees proclaim grace without faith.
To be clear, there are many Christians who have genuinely placed their faith in Christ, but have become so twisted up in their theology—gravitating toward the temptations of either of these hell-bound roads—that they are effectively useless. Their faith is “dead” so to speak. They are saved and sealed by Him who will lose not one (Jn. 5:24; 6:37–39; 10:28–29; 17:9–12; Rm. 4:5; 6:23; 8:38–39; Eph. 1:13; 4:30; Phil. 1:6; Heb. 7:25; 10:14; 1 Pt. 1:4–5), but are leading others away from Heaven. For this reason, as I alluded to earlier, I won’t judge the salvation of anyone, but I will call them out when they are leading others to Gehenna.
This concept—that there is a lie that will have you reject the gospel on both ends of the spectrum—isn’t novel and it isn’t rocket science. Yet few pastors explain this well, being so focused on only one extreme or the other. As a discerning body of believers, we need to be able to clearly explain this, so that we can deliver the good news without confusion.
Christ is the only way through which a person can travel to be reconciled to God (Jn. 14:1–6). He is the door to Heaven (Jn. 10:9). Trying to get in any other way simply doesn’t work (Jn. 10:1–3). Consider for a moment those shape-sorting toys where the child tries to fit the shape into the corresponding hole. There is only one “hole” into Heaven and it’s a cross-shaped hole formed by the Son of Man. Legalists within Christianity are aiming for that hole, but trying to shove through a shape that’s far too big. Their counterparts outside of Christianity have one shape in mind, but don’t even know where the cross-shaped hole is. And the lawless both within Christianity and outside of it are throwing every shape at the hole, except the Cross.
- - -
Further reading on this topic:
The Whore and the Beast
The Law
The Lawless Law-Keepers
Stay on the Narrow Way
Which Jesus Do You Follow?
The Called Out Ones
Gary,
ReplyDeleteI check your site daily. I love your thoughts on all things Christianity. Your writing really aligns with my understanding of theology and eschatology. Do you follow the works of Andrew Farley or Michael S. Heiser?
Good morning! Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Heiser. I think he has a solid understanding of the gospel. He also has solid teaching on the salvation of those who *can't* believe for whatever reason, be they children, mentally handicapped, etc. I talk about that here. I don't agree with everything he says, but a lot of his teachings are solid. The Unseen Realm is good—probably his most popular book.
DeleteJust listened to it Gary, and I agree it is a very biblicaly solid explanation of what happens to those children or mentally handicapped - thank you brother!
DeleteAn excellent recounting of the truth of the Good News! Freely available for all, but not all will choose to accept it.
ReplyDeleteIt's good to be reminded of this foundation of all Christan denominations when it can be so easy to focus on our differences. And now, when we believe the End of this dispensation is so close and those who are left behind will be seeking desperately for answers, it's more important than ever to get this information out there. Thanks!
Thank you Sherrill!
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ReplyDeleteGary, I spent last weekend putting together a video that I posted on my Facebook page that showed major events starting from 9/11/2001. What's interesting is Pope Francis actions, at one point he was accused of denying the deity of Christ, 2019 he signed the Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together with the Grand Imam. The Catholic catechism 841 even includes Islam in the plan of salvation. The Pope has allowed pagan idols and prayers at the Vatican, Francis even had a meeting with the living prophet of the LDS in early 2019. Then he allowed a statue of moloch to sit in the Rome. I see what the Pope is doing with climate change and also declaring that the reformation was over. So many in the Kingdom Now front seem to be joining in along with the NAR. The delusion is being set up. This is why preaching the truth of the Gospel is hard, people hate the truth. Talking to my LDS friends is extremely hard as they're so twisted up in scripture they can not see straight. Unfortunately God gave them a clear warning on March 18th but they still don't seek the truth. The very reason to keep preaching truth in who Christ is and what he did for the world. Christ is for everyone, but not all will take his cup. Just keep planting those seeds.
ReplyDelete"Just keep planting those seeds." Amen to that and maranatha!
DeleteA 'clear warning' is right. Ain't no angel Moroni and if there was he still wouldn't have the trumpet. The King showed them mercy by arranging a very overt sign. I suggest they heed it.
DeleteYes, the two extremes (ditches - Chuck Missler) either side of the road.
ReplyDeleteSo many answer one extreme with the other extreme, each in their respective ditches, throwing dirt and losing ground.
The balancing act of staying on the straight and narrow path to the narrow gate.
It's like a High Wire walk which requires focus on the One, and patient endurance to get to the end of the wire.
Soon to receive our 👑 !
🚫 🍇
Well said brother! 🚫 🍇
DeleteFrom Pilgrims Progress, while Christian walked through the valley of the shadow of death...
Delete"Then I saw in my dream that for the entire length of the valley, there was a very deep ditch on the right side. It is into this ditch that the blind have been leading the blind since the beginning of time, to the destruction of both blind leaders and their followers.
I saw also on the left side of the valley a very dangerous quagmire, in which not even a good man can find solid footing or bottom if he falls in. This is the bog King David fell into, and no doubt would have been smothered, had not He who is able pulled him out.
The pathway was exceedingly narrow, and good Christian was tested to his limits. For in the dark, when he tried to avoid the ditch on the one hand, he was ready to tip over into the mire on the other. Also when he sought to escape the mire, unless he was very careful, he would almost fall into the ditch."
The ditch on one side pictures legalism. The bog on the other side (which even King David fell into) pictures licence. We are called to liberty! It a narrow path as you say Jack!
But the days of the valley of the shadow of death shall soon give way to life! : )
That's awesome elgordo! :)
Delete🚫 🍇
Good job, Gary, succinct and to the point!
ReplyDeleteI had a mormon neighbor very much into works for her church. I learned it did me no good to argue Christianity with her - she was well versed, but with a twist or wrong take I would catch, but was never able to argue her out of her "reasoning".
While her works were commendable, my eventual only comment to her was that WHY she was doing them was like saying that Christ's death on the cross wasn't enough. I should have asked HOW MANY works exactly did she need to atone for her sins?
* * * *
Thing is, I see it in the Christian churches too and I definitely understand it.
Saying how many mini ministries or outreach projects you're involved with is a "thing".
It can be easy to forget that while our efforts are worth while, we're already saved and doing "works" is out of gratitude and in hopes of helping others to become saved as well.
Pastors push works, so it can be easy to conclude our "continued" salvation depends on it!
(How many pastors preach on Once Saved Always saved - it's almost as if they thing we won't come back once we are!?!)
Somebody has to teach Sunday School.
Somebody has to take all those teenagers on mission trips (not me!).
Somebody has to take hot meals to shut ins.
We all have our parts to play behind the scenes.
So long as we know we're not doing it to earn brownie points toward salvation, are humble in our service (often easier said than done), and keep Christ at the forefront, then we're on the right road!
* * * * *
I have less experience with road number 2.
Personally, but know folks who may be walking it.
It's odd that folks who don't give a care for God, still think that when they die they're going to heaven. I don't get it. Folks who believe in a "higher power", presumably not God, still believe in heaven and an afterlife.
Don't they realize that heaven is God's dwelling place?
I don't get the disparity in beliefs?
How can you believe in one without the other?
* * * *
Then there are folks who state emphatically that when they die, they ARE going to hell!
This seems to come up a lot with so-called celebrities.
They say it as if it's a good thing and that they're looking forward to it - as if who they think they are will actually matter and that their celebrity will carry any clout with Satan!
They seem to think hell is all one big debaucherous party where they'll get to do whatever they want!
Don't they know that while Satan may seem to be currently winning the battle, that he is going to lose the war!?!
And, he HATES people! Celebrity be damned (literally)! He wants us dead and destroyed! His only care for us is in pulling us away from Christ - hopefully before we are saved, but after works too if it can keep us from growing spiritually and possibly encouraging others toward Christ.
* * * *
I know that it can be VERY DIFFICULT to get away from whatever religion we grew up with (if any).
It's easy to become defensive when questioned about our beliefs.
But, hopefully that can also lead us to question and understand what we believe and why.
And, make adjustments if necessary.
I have.
Not the basics tenets of Christianity so much as the details.
And, some things just were not taught.
Time and experience can be great teachers.
* * * * *
The Road to Heaven = the REAL Road Less Traveled.
Good thoughts dear sister!
DeleteGary, thank you for keeping the pure Gospel up close and personal. Did you see the post from Joel Rosenberg this morning about the uptick in interest in spiritual things!
ReplyDeletehttps://flashtrafficblog.allisrael.com/2020/03/31/breaking-44-of-americans-say-virus-a-wake-up-call-to-return-to-god-nearly-1-3-believe-we-are-living-in-what-the-bible-calls-the-last-days-fascinating-if-surprising-results-in-exclusive-poll/
[can anyone direct me as to how to make the links clickable? Thanks! judi]
Hi Judi,
DeleteSee, About UNSEALED under "Commenting features:" on how to do this. The part in quotes, "YOUR URL" means to put your Uniform Resource Locator or website address here. That may look like, "https://www.unsealed.org" or any other page address that you have copied and want to paste. Quotation marks are not generally required around the address but are a good practice.
Cheers!
I hear what you are saying and agree with it.
ReplyDeleteI would only add that Jesus IS God, fully man and fully GOD.
Also that any and ALL other "ways," except by FAITH, not of our own but granted through His grace, in the finished sacrifice of the blood of our Lord Jesus as the complete and total propitiation for the sin of all the world, and ours, are "the ways" to hell.
Accept His gift or reject it, that is each person's choice.
Jesus is everything or Jesus is not everything?
Up or down?
Eternal salvation or eternal damnation?
Heaven or Hell?
Nonsmoking or smoking?
That is our only choice.
Hi, sorry for the translation, I have been saved for 32 years already. A man named Roger was an elder in the evangelical church who knocked on our door, and he was constantly talking about the Bible and the good news to my husband and me. By the grace of God, we came to Christ one after another with the contribution of this man who I hope is really a brother?!?. This man was in our assembly for a few more years, and one day he and his wife separated. His wife never wants to see him again, nor 2 of his daughters out of 3. His wife also loved the Lord very much before that. Now he has been my neighbor for about a year by the circumstances of God. He does not follow the Lord and he has abandoned everything for several years to what it seems. He says that now he trusts (only in life) and that he no longer follows Jesus. I speak to him from time to time about the end times of grace and the prophecies that are being fulfilled, but he says nothing. So sad! I know other couples of people who were married and who no longer follow the Lord either and who are separated. All people who attended my assembly. Carole
ReplyDeleteHi Carole! I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, most would know someone with a similar experience (though it is sad to hear he was an elder in an evangelical church). It happened in Jesus' day (John 6:66 - interesting numbers there!) so it is useful to see how Jesus reacted (in John 6:64-65).
DeleteIt also occurred in Paul's day where we read:
"Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness." (2Ti 2:17-19)
So there is a firm foundation which has a twofold seal (one heavenly side, one earthly side).
The heavenly side is that 'The Lord knows those who are His'. We don't truly know another person's heart (we struggle to know our own!). But the Lord does. And He has promised that those who are His shall NEVER perish (John 6:39, 10:27-29)
The earthly side is that 'Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness'. This is the side we see. If someone is the Lord's we should see an outworking of the new life within, through their life.
So what of Roger? Only the Lord knows his heart. But... but if He is the Lord's, if He is a new creation within (though clearly currently walking in the wrong direction) God has incredible ways and means (normally through difficulty) of bringing His wayward sheep back into the fold. I've seen it personally with a family member and others and it never ceases to amaze me how God never lets go of His own!
Keep praying for Roger. I'll add my voice there. God Bless. : )
Thank you elgordo! For your response and your encouragement! God bless you!
DeleteAmen, elgordo. Amen!
DeleteCarole, Keep praying for Roger and all of these. God is doing a great work one life at a time.
I see this pain in my extended family; deep hurts of the past that have not been addressed -- emotional scars of wounds that have not properly healed from past hurts. Self-reliance and pride make hard the job of healing but when we submit all of that past to the LORD in a walk to forgiveness, we change.
Slowly at times, but we change.
Once the heart has been opened that darkness no longer has a place to hide, we heal. We learn how broken we are and how to forgive the brokenness of others. Instead of judging others we learn to forgive and love like Jesus.
It can be a difficult road to travel and depends on the person. I am thankful that my walk upon this road quickly led me to forgiveness and peace as I come from a broken family too.
Don't give up ministering to Roger. Stay clothed in the Love of Christ reflecting His patient kindness. Listen as He does and speak when He does.
Love, always.
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ReplyDeleteOh yes, we have to preach Christ alone, we do not have another name for our salvation. Jesus is the only road, the only path, the only way to the Father. We need to understand again the sens of GRACE.
ReplyDeleteYes, unmerited favor is what God gave to Abraham, David and a whole multitude of old testament saints.
ReplyDeleteThe same He gave us, the grafted on branch of the root of the tree of Abraham.
See sin isn't the issue faith is. That substance He implants in us for trusting in Him changes us from the inside out.
We have to keep hanging on till death if we have to!
Like Paul describes all these died in faith not having obtained the promise.
I'm sorry for rabling on again.....!
Gregg, you're not rambling so no need to apologize.
DeleteTo whom? Us?
Even if you were, which you're not, this is the place to do it.
THIS is one of the very few places I come to on an almost daily basis and say anything.
It's what those of us waiting on the Lord are interested in and it's nice to know we are not the crazy loons the world thinks we are.
No one else wants to listen to our comments and queries regarding current, that is end time, events and their relevance and correlation to scripture.
I also learn a lot in reading the articles AND the commentary.
So, to all and sundry (and Gregg), I say ramble on!
Blessings!
heheheheehhe.....thank you so much!
Delete+Thank you, so much, you are speaking what i believe, but can't speak myself. 7,8 or so, sitting in Sunday school, hearing about Jesus death on the Cross, i suddenly knew this is real. The next Sunday, much to my parents suprise. i skooted past them and went forward to give my self to Jesus. 77 now, i think a good age to see my Lord as He is!
ReplyDeleteIve noticed that when I talk to some Christians is that they confuse this one concept mainly among other things when discussing the Holy Spirit. The original languages didnot use lower case letters they were all in capital with no spaces. The spaces and lower and upper case was determined by the English translators. Most of the time they use Caps appropriately.
ReplyDeleteWhen referring to God as the Holy Spirit in caps they are emphasizing his importance. When referring to the gift of holy spirit to each of us its in lower. So we have the giver, God (Holy Spirit) and the gift ( holy spirit).
There is no more a precious or intimate gift he could give us- a small piece of himself when we get born again.
Now with that id like to share something that relates to this article.
"Wherefore I give you to understand that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by Holy Spirit." 1 Cor 12:3
There was probably a rumor going around the Corinthian church that it was possible to curse Jesus while speaking in tongues, I have had to deal with this myself. Secondly it says that no man (or woman) can truly say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
What does it mean to speak by the Spirit? Context: the manifeastations of the Spirit. The foundational ones being Tongues for a persons private prayer life and edification. Interpretation and prophecy for the Church (assembly of people). 1 Cor 14:4
So from this we can see that no person can truly know for sure that Jesus is Lord except they speak in tongues.
Obviously anyone, even the insincere can profess thier love for the Lord.
Here is a clear definition of S.I.Tongues.
Speaking in tongues is the outward manifestation and proof in the senses world of the internal reality, presence and power of the holy spirit.(The gift).
So you are saying that if I have never spoken in tongues I cannot claim yo know Jesus as lord? I.e. I am not saved? Have I misunderstood?
DeleteSounds like 'If you don't do this thing, you are not saved!' doesn't it? (AKA:Works)
DeleteTongues is one possible sign of salvation, but it was generally for the purpose of spreading the Gospel to someone who spoke a different language when there was no translators available. (IE: I speak English, but the other guy speaks French. The gift of tongues would either have me start speaking French, or for him to understand English, or for me to speak English, but have him hear French. Basically, the Holy Spirit acts as the translator for us to pass along a message. This is all at His discretion in any case, and not something that comes from us naturally...)
I think of it this way the Holy Spirit is the Paraclete the one along side to help us.
DeleteThat substance that God gives us inside, is that born again nature exchange for faith.
My self I got this inrush funnel of energy, and when I started talking to people about Jesus, bible God and everything but the response I got was "you sound a Jesus freak" But it was exciting stuff so I didn't mind!
Good morning, everyone. Another sign: https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/147830/jerusalem-residents-awaken-mystified-by-simultaneous-midnight-shofar-blasts/
ReplyDeleteListening for that true "Midnight Cry"--Maranatha!
Wow!
DeleteQuoting, Breaking Israel News
"Yeah it could be some guys screwing around but it didnt matter. I wanted it to be the real thing. I wanted the next stage. I didnt want it to stop. I wanted it to get louder and louder until everybody woke up and ran outside. That feeling was incredible. INCREDIBLE. I want it again but for real. I want everyone to feel it and experience it. This is what we’ve been waiting for and what else are we now waiting for? To get back to business as usual?!?!?! What a downer. What an anti climax!"
'The Church is Christ in the world. It is almighty God who willed “that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known” (Ephesians 3:10).'
ReplyDelete'You cannot separate rejecting the Church from rejecting Christ according to Scripture and the teaching of the Catholic Church. In other words, one cannot just create his own religion and follow the “Jesus” of his own creation and choosing without there being eternal consequences.'
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-there-really-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church
Blairagorn ,
DeleteNot sure if I'm reading your response correct, but if you are implying that rejecting the church as an Institution is also rejecting Christ, then I would completely disagree. The church as an organized institutional body is not salvation. And many who will be taken to meet Christ in the clouds have openly rejected the church as an institution. A bureaucratic body has no spirit, let alone The Spirit the saves.
Furthermore, that article you posted is a perfect example of what Gary was saying here.
DeleteIt very self righteously claims that faith in the saving works of Christ is "not enough" because you must ALSO fall under the umbrella of "Faith in the CATHOLIC Church". Then a little way down the page states that salvation can be had by those with NO faith in Christ, but who know of Him vicariously through Judaism and Islam and "by no fault of their own" have not accepted the Pope as their savior?
I read pretty much only quotes from the Catechism (words of men), and a few cherry picked verses from the New Testiment (which had nothing to do with the Catholic Church [Institution]).
I truly prey that you are a brother in heart and don't fall victim to words you speak.
May Christ find you willing to accept HIM.
Blairagorn, the Church is not an earthly institution defined by man (e.g., the Roman Catholic Church), but is a heavenly and mystical body defined by God. This is a fundamental difference between Catholic and Christian theology (see here).
DeleteSince the genuine Church is biblically-defined as composing those with genuine belief, it is impossible for man to identify who composes this Church (see Rom. 10:1–9).
I believe in the Church, but the Church is not the vehicle of salvation. Christ is. The Church is composed of all of those who trust in Christ alone for salvation, resting in His finished work on the Cross.
Gary & K.Steven, totally agree. I would add this: From my research, it seems that the R.C.C. teaches that "The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" and Christ's church are one in the same. I don't think so. Jesus Christ is the HEAD of His church, and there is no room for a "Pope". We (the Body of Christ) are members of His (Jesus) church (Strongs G1577). Yes there may be people attending, or that are members of the R.C.C. that are members of Christ's body, but a large number of them are trusting in the "Church" (Mary, the Sacraments, works etc.) for their salvation, and not Jesus alone, by faith alone. Of course we could say the same for some in the "protestant" church as well. It is also confusing for some people about the definition of catholic. The word catholic means universal, and thus we (the Body of Christ) are part of His "catholic" or "universal" church. However, we are NOT part of the Roman Catholic Church. There is a clear distinction. The R.C.C. likes to commingle the two, and thus confusing many (another one of Satan's schemes).....Rich
DeleteAt https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump Trump warns that Iran or its proxies are planning a sneak attack on US troops and/or assets in Iraq. Now the world is so distracted by the ongoing Coronacrisis we can expect a war erupting in the Middle-East.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that the Biblical fact that the one and only way to salvation being the free will faithful acceptance of the BLOOD sacrifice on the cross by our Lord Jesus in complete and finished propitiation for the sin of the world gets absolutely zero agreement in a putative Christian discussion.
ReplyDeleteI suppose this is to be expected when people reject SOLA Jesus which is explicit in God's word the Holy Scripture?
Where it explicitly states that the ONLY mediator between God and man is the MAN Jesus.
Where it explicitly states that the church is the body of Christ,.
You either put your total trust and FAITH in Jesus and the accomplished salvation of ALL mankind by his BLOOD propitiation, or you do not.
There is no salvation in ANY man made building or so called organized religion.
It is ONLY through Jesus that the gift of salvation can be accepted.
There is nothing that we can do to earn or deserve salvation, it is a gift already accomplished and paid for in full by OUR Lord Jesus on the cross by his shed BLOOD.
Amen. "On Christ the solid Rock I stand... all other ground is sinking sand."
DeleteDoes anyone want to tackle this one with me? 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
ReplyDelete4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
specifically "and the dead in Christ shall rise first"
What group of people is referenced by Paul here?
I believe that would be the folks who have died, having faith in Christ's redemptive works but not physically alive at the time of rapture.
DeleteYes. The Rapture includes the living (who will not taste death), but also the dead (who get their resurrected bodies an instant before the living do)
DeleteYes then my next observation is Who are the "even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him"?
Deleteif we who are alive and remain do not prevent those who have already died in Christ, then who are the dead reference by Paul who rise first?
DeleteThere are three groups of people here.
When we die we go to be with the Lord.
If you read 4:13-18 in one breath, there one thing that doesn't make since and that is the dead rising first.
DeletePaul knew what he was talking about, most of us don't.
The son being obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook; and the rocks were split, and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
DeleteThis event was a sign to the Jews, and Paul knew it.
as it will be again.
Paul tells the Colossians 2:17 they are shadows of things to come but the substance is Christ.
I actually would be looking for the resurrection as possibly the next event. As you quoted above, it happens immediately prior to the Harpazo event. How long the dead will walk the Earth before the catching away together to be with Christ is anyone's guess. During the time of Christ's resurrection, those who popped out of the broken open graves gained life again and walked around the city for a bit and were seen by many we are told.
DeleteMatthew 27:53 "And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."
Current pop culture refers to this soon coming event as the zombie apocalypse. The world is prepared for it through movies- We on the other hand expect it from the revealed Word.
-blessings!
Christ and the many out of the graves walked around for 40 days testifying of Jesus as the Messiah and then ascended.
DeleteWhich I think is a Jewish event for them in Jerusalem as it will be again.
It is the only thing that makes since to me.
Hi Gregg/All,
DeleteHere are my two cents on this topic...
Q: What was the destination of Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the thief on the cross next to Jesus on their death?
Q: Would we consider these individuals as "saints"?
Q: Where are those listed above found today?
Your answer to the last question may depend on how you would answer this question,
Q: What did Jesus accomplish in the hours between his last breath on the cross and the Sabbath?
Q: Do we have evidence of where Jesus went after he breathed his last?
A: Yes, we do have evidence of where Jesus went after his death on the cross.
42 And he said, "Jesus,
remember me when you come
into your kingdom."
43 And he said to him,
"Truly, I say to you, today
you will be with me in
paradise."
(Luke 23:42-43 ESV)
Jesus' destination on his death was paradise. In the Greek (G3857) that is "Παραδείσῳ" (Dative, masculine, singular) meaning, "a park, a garden, a paradise". What is this paradise?
The Spirit tells us through the letter to the church at Ephesus,
7 "He who has an ear, let him
hear what the Spirit says to
the churches. To the one who
conquers I will grant to eat
of the tree of life, which
is in the paradise of God."
Red letters (Revelation 2:7 ESV)
So Jesus plainly tells us that paradise is the garden, or park, the paradise of God. Jesus also tells us that He will be in paradise on the day of His death. How will He be in paradise? Physically or Spiritually?
He would be in paradise in spirit.
Why?
Because His body had to lay in state in the tomb to keep the Sabbath,
8 "Remember the Sabbath day,
to keep it holy."
(Exodus 20:8 ESV)
This is the longest Commandment of the Ten Commandments. Three times He invokes His name LORD and makes clear that this is the day the LORD rested. Jesus kept the Sabbath, the second day rest, perfectly in the grave. Just as God records through His servant Moses,
2 And on the seventh day God
finished his work that he had
done, and he rested on the
seventh day from all his work
that he had done.
(Genesis 2:2 ESV)
...so too did Jesus rest from all the work He had done. On the second day He rested from all His labour and kept the Sabbath holy to the LORD our God.
But note that Scripture records that, "on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done". On the seventh day HE FINISHED his work! Hmmm, that would mean that somewhere between the first and second day Jesus was still working?
I believe the answer to that question is, "Yes!" Somewhere between the time of Jesus' death on the cross and the advent of three stars seen that night Jesus was still at work behind the scenes.
Where?
Where the OT saints had gone before Him,
18 For Christ also suffered
once for sins, the righteous
for the unrighteous, that he
might bring us to God, being
put to death in the flesh but
made alive in the spirit,
19 in which he went and
proclaimed to the spirits in
prison,
20 because they formerly did
not obey, when God's patience
waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was being prepared,
in which few, that is, eight
persons, were brought safely
through water.
(1 Peter 3:18-20 ESV)
Q: Where and when did Jesus go to make this proclamation?
Where is a place we call Sheol. When was after His death on the cross but remember, in death time has no meaning. Our temporal thinking frames our understanding in life but in death there is no such thing. The temporal dead exist in spirit outside of linear time. Events in time become as a singularity when framed against eternity.
This may be a key to understanding (Matthew 27:52-53 ESV).
Is this a message to the Jews? Absolutely! It was to a Jewish audience that the Spirit penned the gospel through Matthew.
Duty calls, must close for now...
Blessings,
PR
See https://www.raptureready.com/2020/03/31/pauls-midrash-on-the-exodus-by-jeff-van-hatten/ "Paul’s Midrash on the Exodus :: By Jeff Van Hatten":
Delete"Matthew 27:52-53 – “The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.”
Of the Bride, Paul tells us that the dead in Yeshua rise first. Perhaps they too have a time of witnessing and traveling before they reach their destination – the clouds to meet Yeshua. Perhaps, only then do those who are still alive ascend. The pattern of the Hebrew slaves’ resurrection and Moses subsequent rapture gives reason to believe that the pattern of the resurrection and subsequent rapture of the Bride will not result in an instantaneous disappearance, either. The scriptures in Matthew lend further support for this pattern. What do you say?"
Could be, I tend to think God will get there attention by this event cause it will not only mimic Matthew 27:52-53 for 40 days but also Jonah's 40 day warning.
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ReplyDeleteCatholic Christians assembled the New Testament many centuries ago and the church, on Earth and living through history, has maintained it. Hundreds of theologians and saints have faithfully preserved the authentic teachings of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church of Jesus Christ. Even the attacks of our times by communists and atheists will fail to destroy the church militant of our Saviour.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/oral-tradition-in-the-new-testament
Early Christian saints on the church
https://chnetwork.org/2018/01/19/catholic-church-church-early-fathers/
Catholics do not view the popes as saviours either
https://www.catholic.com/tract/origins-of-peter-as-pope
Sirach 1:1 - All wisdom is from the Lord and remains with him forever
Wisdom 1:7 - For the spirit of the LORD fills the world, is all-embracing, and knows whatever is said
I'm so glad to not be a part of the Catholic Church. Too much corruption and deception. There's good theological work done by members of this PART of the church, but the real church, the body of believers of which I am a part, is more than that which blindly follows after evil Popes.
DeleteAnd good job quoting non-scripture to validate why we shouldn't get involved with the Catholic church
Deletehttps://earthquaketrack.com/quakes/2020-03-31-23-52-31-utc-6-5-10
ReplyDeletea day ago 6.5 magnitude, 10 km depth
Challis, Idaho, United States
Acts 16:25-26
25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed.
https://www.loveworldusa.org/globaldayofprayer/
ReplyDeletePastor Chris and Pastor Benny Hinn declare GLOBAL DAY OF PRAYER!
With a special message for you!!!
Friday, March 27, 2020 at 11am Pacific / 2pm Eastern / 7pm GMT+1.
there have been live from all over the world over 3 billion people..
and for a week everyone prayed and fasted..
Maranatha!!!
ReplyDeleteAmin!!!
I would like to comment on the scripture where Jesus said "I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise".
ReplyDeleteThis is an example of poor punctuation by the K.J. translators. There was no punctuation in the original languages or chapters and verses.
The problem is the placement if a simple comma.
It should read "I say to you today(,) you shall be with me in paradise. The wrong placement of a single comma totally changes the meaning. Im saying to you today that you will be with me in paradise. In the future. The thief mentioned the kingdom in verse 42. Are we in the millenial kingdom now? No, its still future.
Neither Jesus or the thief went to paradise that day. Jesus was dead for 3 days and 3 nights (Psalms 146:4). And the thief will not live again until the first resurrection after the tribulation and prior to the millenial kingdom.
The paradise Jesus referred to is going to be on earth- in the future.
I dont expect everyone to agree with me, most probably wont, im just throwing it out there. God bless.
From Grace Through Faith:
DeleteAs you pointed out, there were no punctuation marks in the original text. So what we have to ask ourselves is where did Jesus and the thief go when they died? Because regardless of where you put the comma, it seems clear that Jesus told the thief they were going to the same place.
Some try to get around this by claiming the word today actually belongs at the beginning of verse 43 making it say, “Today I tell you the truth, you will be with me in Paradise.” This could also make it sound like the thief would eventually wind up with Jesus, but not right away. I haven’t found any legitimate translations from the Greek that say that.
If it’s true, as my study of Luke 16:19-31 indicates, that when Lazarus died the angels carried him away to Abraham’s side, and if Abraham’s side was also known as Paradise, as rabbinical teaching indicates, then we have the Lord saying that a believer who died before the resurrection went to Paradise. This supports the view that Jesus and the thief went there too.
But if they didn’t go there, then where did they go? I think I made a good case for the fact that Jesus didn’t go to hell as we understand it, like those who believe he endured three more days of suffering say. And from 1 Peter 3:18-20 we know Jesus didn’t just lie in the tomb until His resurrection. If they went to Paradise together on the day they died, as the widely accepted view of Luke 23:43 tells us, that means the thief didn’t experience some time of “soul sleep” either.
Also, does anyone think Abraham was suffering in hell? Because the Lord shows Abraham and Lazarus in the same place in Luke 16:22. (To get around this, some make the claim that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is one of the many lies Satan planted in the Bible to throw everyone off the track and therefore it isn’t true.)
Of course the real issue is whether the Bible is the inspired word of God or not. If it is, then Jesus, the thief, and Lazarus all went to Paradise when thy died, just like the Bible says, until Jesus went to Heaven to sprinkle His blood on the altar there and opened its gates to the spirits of all dead believers who would follow.
Yes! The lack of punctuation marks leave us to interpret Scripture. Some use this to deny the divinity of Christ Himself as seen in previous weeks in this space. I fall back on the words of Jesus as He said to Peter,
Delete29 And he asked them,
"But who do you say that I am?"
Peter answered him,
"You are the Christ."
(Mark 8:29 ESV)
Who do you say I am? That's the question. How we answer that frames how we interpret Scripture. How we interpret Scripture is based upon the state of our heart and as children of the Living God we are all on a personal journey of discovery...a personal journey called LOVE.
8 Anyone who does not love
does not know God, because
God is love.
(1 John 4:8 ESV)
Also Paul and the Psalms tells us He descended into the lower parts of the earth and leads captivity captive.
Delete2 cor.12:4 Paul is referring to stoning of Stephen being caught up into Paradise.
He asked Mary Magdalene, who first saw Him in resurrected form, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the My Father.” (John 20:17) If He had not yet ascended to the Father, then Paradise was not located in heaven,Yet!
Pastor Rich, when Jesus asked Peter that question, his answer is good enough for me. "Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God". And I hope your not suggesting that im moving punctuation to support my theology, that would be insulting so i'll assume you didnt mean that.
ReplyDeleteI am going to consult with a friend in order to debunk the scriptures Jenny mentioned. He has a book that deals with difficult passages. It is my position that when we die-we die. Total and complete unconsciousness. No, Lazarus is not up there with Abraham and neither is Abraham.
What is the point of a future resurrection if people are already in heaven?
On the subject of the soul, lets take a look at that. In Gen. 2:7 it says that God breathed into Adam the "breath of life and man became a living soul".
The soul has nothing to do with spirit, it is simply what makes us alive. In Ezekiel 18:20 it says " the soul that sins, it (the soul) shall die. Notice that last word- DIE. When a person dies the soul is no more.
If we believe that there is immediate life after death in heaven or hell we are buying into Satans original lie to Eve. "Thou shall not surely die".
Also consider this from Ecclesiastes.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING, neither have they any more reward for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecc 9:5
If people were alive in some form after death then they would know things but since they dont it means thier gone-dead!
Whatsoever your hand finds to do, do it with your might for there is no work, device, no knowledge, no wisdom in the grave where your going. Ecc 9:10
I am going to inquire on those scriptures in 1 Peter and Luke and revisit it later.
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DeleteHi Mainer,
DeleteYou are correct, I in NO WAY meant to say you're moving punctuation to support your theology. I did not mean such a thing and apologize if you took it that way. It was not intended as such.
You ask, "What is the point of a future resurrection if people are already in heaven?"
The point is this: We are to expect a physical resurrection. Those who are already asleep in Christ, are in the presence of God in spirit and will become as Jesus was at His ascension. After the dead have been *raised* physically in new glorified bodies we who remain on earth will be changed as well. In approximately 1e-43 or 1 x 10^-43 seconds we will all have physical (glorified) bodies and be as Jesus was as seen those 40-days before His ascension. We will be like Him.
That's 1/100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th of a second!!
I read the RR as being one event with two parts happening in immediate succession and directly related to our future role during the Millennial Kingdom and beyond.
God's breath given Adam is eternal and we are therefore eternal. I would suggest looking at a broader perspective when considering Ecclesiastes. Who is dying and by what (if anything) are we/they saved? (What is the context especially temporally).
An example, by the time you finish reading Torah you are left with these facts,
1. The Law condemns us all for we have all broken the Law
2. By what then may we be saved? (Nothing in and of ourselves)
...then we start reading Joshua. Yehoshua (Joshua), Jesus is our hope. I count myself blessed to have a faithful fellow believer like you.
So, what is the point? God is restoring everything to as it was in the beginning. Paradise will be restored but this time without the likes of Lucifer. We will be His people and He will be our God.
Forever.
I wish I had more time to share but duty calls. Keep asking questions, praying and searching Scripture. May the Holy Spirit richly guide you and fill you with His wisdom and teaching!
Blessings, always,
PR
His breath(the breath of life) goes forth, he returns to the earth( out of which he was made): in that very day his thoughts perish.
ReplyDeletePsalms 146:4 KJV
Mainer
DeleteI have another take on psalms 146:3-5 I don't think you lose your memory.
As there are different resurrections for example and the one I don't want to be apart of are the ones at the "Great White Throne Judgment" there is found no place for these people.
Well, let's get specific on the words of (Psalm 146:4) from the JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh and compare to that of Bible Hub and the LXX (Septuagint),
Delete4 His breath departs;
he returns to the dust;
on that day his plans
come to nothing.
(Psalm 146:4 JPS-TNK)
Quoting, Biblehub.com (Psalm 146:4) Text Analysis
"Departs his spirit he returns to his earth in day that [very] perish his plans"
Looking to the LXX we find,
4 His breath shall go forth,
and he shall return to his
earth; in that day all his
thoughts shall perish.
Now, as interesting as it is to focus on one verse - let's open this up from the beginning. Let's also use the LXX as that is the earliest rendering we have from the paleo-hebrew texts,
1 My soul, praise the Lord.
2 While I live will I praise the Lord:
I will sing praises to my God as long
as I exist.
3 Trust not in princes, nor in the
children of men, in whom there is no
safety.
4 His breath shall go forth, and he
shall return to his earth; in that
day all his thoughts shall perish.
Stopping there for one moment -- what is the context here? Who is it that is perishing? I read it as those who as we say, "inhabit the earth". This is the un-saved who are perishing. Their plans and thoughts come to nothing and shall perish.
This is not a picture of the saints.
Saint and sinner alike return to dust as from dust we come. But that is for our temporal, earthly body. The fate of the worldly mind is well documented in Scripture. The setting apart of the chosen righteous is hinted at time and time again and typified in the same way.
But as for (Psalm 146) and who it is that is perishing? That's the worldly mind and unsaved soul -- those who inhabit the earth.
This passage doesn't say that we die and come to nothing. It says that the plans of the wicked die and come to nothing. I see no basis for saying that we loose our memory or dying to nothingness.
...and that's my two cents! :)
Blessings, always
This may be a little oversimplified, but when the Bible talks about 'everlasting life', doesn't everlasting mean everlasting...so doesn't that answer the question of 'dead', as posed by Mainer?
DeleteYes, Mike, that is a tidy and simple way of saying it. My point was to be specific to (Psalm 146:4) since that was the pin-point given.
DeleteEverlasting is everlasting but I think the point was more of a *when* everlasting begins? I believe, understand and teach that everlasting begins the moment you say, "Yes!" to Jesus. I also believe, understand and teach that on our death, those in Christ are immediately in His presence.
I further back this up with personal experience of a dear and best friend who died of Meningitis and was revived. His death experience in the '90s was specific and vivid and he recalls it to this day.
For him there was no blackness -- everything was light.
Jenny
ReplyDeleteYou jogged my memory when you said that.
"until Jesus went to Heaven to sprinkle His blood on the altar there and opened its gates to the spirits of all dead believers who would follow."
In the 80s 90s there was a man who was an archeologist his name Ron Wyatt.
He claimed to have found the Ark of the Covenant in Zedekiah cave right below the crucifixion site. When the rocks were split that pool of blood gushed right down and landed on the mercy seat the lid being ajar from the quake. The report goes on to say that he got a sample of the black substance recovered from the ceiling.
I remember Ariel Sharon mentioned the Ark of the Covenant find one time and riots happened the next day.
Thats my memorable account of what I remember on the subject......so, Just thought id share that.
Yes, and there are further claims of DNA testing that showed it to be human blood consistent with missing a human father gender pair.
DeleteYes, half the chromosome are missing!
DeleteI'll have to look into it - thanks!
DeleteIsn't it incredible that archaeological finds of our modern times (give or take a few decades) continue to further prove the accuracy of the Bible!
* * * *
I'd just like to say that I absolutely understand that we are all at different levels in our Christian walk. Learning and growing and seeking to know and understand our God.
When I post articles, I do so for informative reasons only.
I'm not disparaging anyone else's beliefs.
Personally, while I grew up in the Church, there were a LOT of things just not taught.
Earlier this week we were discussing salvation and someone mentioned motive.
As a kid, my motive was FEAR.
Sunday school lessons were pretty much along the line of BE GOOD or GO to HELL!
I absolutely believed that going to heaven when I died was all about being good.
This was reinforced by parents who absolutely knew better as well!
When I was 13-14 I used to fly back and forth between San Francisco and Los Angeles nearly every weekend (my dad was a pilot). My aunt was in law school and I was the weekend babysitter. Anyway, I remember being especially good come Thursday night so that by the time I left after school on Friday, if the plane crashed, I wouldn't end up in hell! (My twin brother didn't help either, telling me "The plane's going to crash! beforehand.) I had no fear of flying, only of going to hell!
(Things were simpler then - going to school in the 80's, I had no qualms traveling about on my own. I also remember having a quarter for the phone - just in case!)
My point is that I've since learned better.
Every day.
After looking at 1 Peter 3:18-20 I see no reason to think that while Jesus was dead that his dis-embodied spirit preached to the spirits in prison. There was approximately a 12 hr. gap between his resurrection and his first appearance to Mary Magdelene (John 20:15) He would have had plenty of time to address the imprisoned spirits in his resurrected, restored spiritual body.
ReplyDeleteI still conclude that when our Lord died he truly died and stayed dead for the full 3 days and 3 nights until God raised him to glory. Then he went to see trouble-making flood demons.
...and that's okay to think that about (1 Peter 3:18-19). These verses are a point of argument among theologians and saints alike. Is it so important *HOW* Jesus did what He did? I would say not. It's more important to *KNOW* that God did all that He said He would do through the Christ and that we do the work of the Father by believing in the One He sent as a ransom for us.
DeleteLike you Mainer, I say that Jesus is the Living Son of God. Emmanuel, the Holy One of Israel.
As far as I know, I dont believe that Paul ever referred to the Rapture as a resurrection. Im a stickler for word usage. He actually doesnt say rapture either. It comes from the latin word rapturo so its appropriate. What he does call it is "our gathering together". I like calling it the great gathering.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of the Rapture, im thinking of one event. The dead in Christ raised first which as I think was never called a resurrection and then those alive being changed.
Some like to call it RR, I prefer just R, but thats a minor point.
The whole sequence of Rapture event is clear to me but to explain it in simple terms to someone else may not be.
DeleteThe kicker for me is Jesus brings back with Him those who have already died in Christ.
And we that are remaining are removed and basically ends the Church covenant.
So He can continue where He left the Jews to finish there covenant.
That group of people in Matthew 27:52-53 The dead in Christ raised first and incorruptible they will remind the Jews who Jesus is for 40 days sign of Johna.
Hi Gregg ;
DeleteYou are talking about 2 different events. 1st was when Jesus rose from the dead. 2nd was rapture. The rapture concerns the dead in Christ rising into the clouds to meet Jesus, THEN we who are alive in Christ rise to meet him. It is that simple. :)
rjmgoose
DeleteYea, you got it.
If God brings back with Him the Sleeping one's then who are the dead rising?
What verse are you referring to about Jesus bringing the dead with him? As far as I recall, at the Rapture, the dead are resurrected and go up with him, and at the second coming all the righteous dead return to Earth with Jesus.
Delete1 Thessalonians 4:14
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ReplyDeleteAnother scripture id like to show just how the improper word or punctuation can lead to false conclusions.
ReplyDelete"Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints". Psalms 116:15 KJV
Many a minister, pastor etc. have used this scripture at funerals to try to put a positive spin on death. Like death can be a good thing.
The word precious is not entirely wrong, just misleading. A Ruby or Sapphire is called a "precious" gem.
The word that should have been used here is costly. Costly in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints.
It costs God something when a believer dies, it is not a cause for any celebration.
In 1 Cor. 15:26 Paul writes that in the end the "last enemy that shall be destroyed is death". God considers death to be an enemy. We are no good to him dead.
Hello Mainer, I noticed that referring to PS. 115:15, the translator notes from the NET bible say this:
ReplyDeletetn Heb “precious in the eyes of the Lord [is] the death of his godly ones.” The point is not that God delights in or finds satisfaction in the death of his followers! The psalmist, who has been delivered from death, affirms that the life-threatening experiences of God’s followers get God’s attention, just as a precious or rare object would attract someone’s eye. See Ps 72:14 for a similar expression of this belief.
The NET renders the verse: 15 The Lord values the lives of his faithful followers.
The LSV renders it: 15 Precious in the eyes of YHWH [is] the death for His saints
While I don't like the NET rendering, for it departs too far from the literal for me (I always have preferred the NASB until some of the more recent literal versions have appeared), I do believe its "spirit" is correct. I have always seen this verse as God considers the death of his saints precious, because the saints are precious, their lives having mattered. Death, after all, is our entry to His presence, at long last. Nothing negative about that from my perspective. It is the way of death, suffering beforehand, or the timing of it, especially with children, that is heartbreaking--and yes, separation for a time from loved ones. Life is a gift, and we should honor God for it, but I don't consider death, for the saint, as negative. Death is the last enemy because it was the consequence of the Fall, the result of disobedience. Jesus defeated sin on the cross, but we are still subject to physical death until temporal time is done for us. The day is coming when death--that great price/enemy will have been defeated also--once and for all. In the meantime death now is my doorway to heaven. Hallelujah (easy for me to say, I am 76! lol).
Just my two cents worth. Blessings. judi
No, thank you for your response but I utterly reject everything you wrote. When we die we are dead-period. We do not go to heaven or hell. We are unconscious-dead. There is no life after death for anyone except for the one who truly defeated death. The Lord Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteMainer
DeleteAre you saying your a Sadducee Acts 23:6-8 or have I miss read this?
Well... if you're unaware while you are dead, and regain awareness at the resurrection... Then basically when you die you fast forward to the rapture/resurection. This feels like an explanation of imminence doctrine. We never know when death will take our flesh... Kind of like the Rapture, we don't know when it will be, though we sense it's approach the same way...
DeleteHow can death possibly be seen as precious? When God put Adam and Eve in the garden do you think he thought death was precious? It amazes me to what extent people will argue with common sense scripturally.
ReplyDeleteForasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,he also took part of the same.
ReplyDeleteLets stop there. It says he "took part". What part was it? The flesh.
that through death he might destroy him that has the power of death. That is the DEVIL.
Hebrews 2:14
ReplyDeleteHi my brother, I don't know whether or not you are right about our Lord Jesus when he died. I only know that for me what matters is that he died for me, that he paid the price of entry from heaven for me, that he was resurrected, alive and well, and that he is my wonderful Savior and master who returns soon. I think that's what matters. Whether he stayed dead 3 days or went elsewhere doesn't bother me at all. I have faith in him and that is what is important. On the other hand, there is a passage in the Bible which I think, suggests that Paul says that we are with Jesus from death. I may be wrong, but as I say, what really matters is where am I going when it is the right time for God. Here is this passage: Phi 1: 21-24 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. God bless you!
ReplyDeleteThank you for that brother, when we die the next thought of us all when we die will be when we are face to face with the Lord Jesus. That is what Paul was saying.
ReplyDelete@ Mainer "No, thank you for your response but I utterly reject everything you wrote. When we die we are dead-period. We do not go to heaven or hell. We are unconscious-dead. There is no life after death for anyone except for the one who truly defeated death. The Lord Jesus Christ."
ReplyDeletevs
"Thank you for that brother, when we die the next thought of us all when we die will be when we are face to face with the Lord Jesus. That is what Paul was saying."
It sure sounds like you are talking through both sides of your mouth. Your statements are contradictory. The Bible speaks of life after death in practically every chapter of every book. "When we die we are dead-period. We do not go to heaven or hell. " This sounds like something an Atheist would believe, NOT what most if not all others on this site believe.
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ReplyDeleteHi Mainer, concerning your comment "When we die we are dead-period. We do not go to heaven or hell. We are unconscious-dead. There is no life after death for anyone except for the one who truly defeated death. The Lord Jesus Christ."
ReplyDeleteThis, in connection to your other recent thoughts, is commonly known as "soul-sleep". Been around for a long time but is generally rejected in mainline Christian churches. Some religious groups rising in the last 200 years such as Seventh Day Adventists, JW's, Christadelphians picked it up again and argue for it.
I'll just state why most (including myself) don't agree with it and leave it there. It isn't a salvation issue obviously, but may cause confusion to other readers. That is my main motivation for writing.
1. Jesus clearly taught that both the righteous and wicked are conscious after death. (Luke 16:22-23). He was not teaching something that was false.
2. Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross in that 'Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise'. (Luke 23:43). No mainstream translation or Greek scholar that worked on them place the comma where you say, after the today, because 1) it would be totally redundant to say that (of course Jesus was saying it 'Today') 2) Jesus used this common phrase 'Truly I say unto you' many times previously and never includes 'Today' at the end. He always says 'Truly I say unto you' and then says what He wants to say 3) It fits the context where Greek scholars place the comma. The thief was thinking of some future unknown day when Jesus comes into His kingdom and wanted to be remembered and included then. Jesus gave him a far greater hope - 'Today you will be with me!'
3. Paul taught that at death believers are with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8, Phil 1:23). You'll note that in 2 Cor 5:8 death is spoken of as being 'absent from the body'. We are not still with the body in the grave. The body dies. The spirit and soul of believers go to be with Him. Instantly.
4. Describing heaven now, the writer of Hebrews states that as well as Jesus and the angels, there is the 'church of the firstborn', the 'spirits of the righteous men made perfect'. Heb 12:23. Believers are there, conscious, now.
5. 1 Thes 4:14, as others have commented on above, tells us that when Jesus returns He will bring those who have died 'in Christ' with Him. That is because they are currently with Him.
6. That is why, when describing the family of God, Paul writes that it is both on Earth and in Heaven (Eph 3:14-15)
7. The book of Revelation speaks of those that die in the faith during the tribulation but before their resurrection. It shows the opposite of your comment. They are seen in heaven, conscious, speaking in some cases, wearing white robes. (Rev 6:9-10, 7:9-14)
Also useful is to examine why Jesus quoted Mat 22:32 to the Sadducees (from the book of Exodus, well after Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had died physically.)
It is because, though the physical bodies of Abraham Issac and Jacob had long since died, they are still alive! Same applies to all believers! He is the God of the living.
All the best.
elgordo
DeleteGood Job !
And also "Flesh and blood con not inherit the kingdom of God, it has to be changed in a moment"
Maybe each person experiences death differently. For some it's the fast forward I explained above. While others stay aware and are with the Lord. Might explain why some have the 'near death experience' and others don't when revived...
DeleteOnly God would know, and it seems the Bible has verses for both states, hence the argument... Personally I don't know which I would favor.
Excellent description of how the Bible describes the current state of the dead believer. Thank you!
DeleteAt https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/passover-death-burial-resurrection-jesus-christ-777777777-global-population-april-2020/ "This Year As We Celebrate The Death, Burial And Resurrection Of Jesus The Passover Lamb, There Will Be 7,777,777,777 Souls Alive On Earth":
ReplyDelete"This Year As We Celebrate The Death, Burial And Resurrection Of Jesus The Passover Lamb, There Will Be 7,777,777,777 Souls Alive On Earth
In this breakout crazy 2020 year of eye-popping, breakout crazy end times events, let me add one more to our ever-growing list of end times excitement. The global population will reach exactly 7 billion, 777 million, 777 thousand, 777 souls on planet Earth sometime between the day that Jesus went to the cross, Wednesday, and the day He was risen from the dead, Sunday. Think about that. And it all started with the Passover, which for us this year begins Wednesday April 8th, which is also the day Jesus went to the cross. Wow."
In week 5 op Tuesday 28 January president Trump revealed his Deal of the Century. In week 15 on Tuesday 7 April it will be exact 70 days after and on Wednesday 8 April it will be Passover. Very extraordinary that during Lent, or the 40 days before Easter, the Coronavirus did plunge the world into a unprecedented medical, economic and societal crisis. Very exciting, isn't it?
There are approximately 1.5M births left to go as of the writing of *this* note. We're almost to 7,777,777,777 souls living on planet earth.
DeleteIt would be very great when 7,777,777,777 souls has been reached, the Rapture would happen. But I wouldn't pin my down on it.
DeleteI cant find the phrase "soul sleep" anywhere in scripture just like I cant find a lot of other things that people keep repeating.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of the immortal soul is not biblically based. I quoted a scripture which i'll quote again. "The soul that sins it( the soul) shall die. Ezekiel 18:4,20. Obviously a soul cannot be immortal if it can die. The soul is not eternal when we die the soul does not "sleep" it is destroyed. And Ecclesiastes spells it out clearly "The dead dont know anything".
I know many of these beliefs are deeply embedded in Christianity and has been for a long time. Now im going to tell you where this idea of the immortal soul comes from.
It actually originated hundreds of years before Christianity while the prophets were writing the Torah. The ancient Egyptians practiced this. Thats why they would leave food and other things next to the dead pharoahs coffin thinking he might want a snack later.
It was later, still before Christ, adopted by the Greek philosophers Plato, Socrates and Pythagoras. Moving ahead to about a hundred years after the Apostle Pauls death there was an early Church scholar named Tertullian and others who often quoted Plato.
Tertullian in his writings deals directly with the concept of the immortal soul and clearly agrees with Plato.
The idea that the soul is eternal is not biblical. It was incorporated into Christianity by the greeks not long after the first century.
Id also like to remark on the so-called life after death experiences that some people have had. This in my opinion is a deception perpetrated by the enemy, similar to the UFO phenomena.
Please know that I dont write these things to be controversial, im just interested in the truth wherever the chips fall.
God bless
Are you making distinction between the words, "soul" and "spirit"?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete...if you were I would point you to the Psalm which is most special to me and speaks specifically to our soul (rendered here from the LXX),
Delete9 Therefore my heart rejoiced
and my tongue exulted; moreover
also my flesh shall rest in hope:
10 because thou wilt not leave
my soul in hell, neither wilt
thou suffer thine Holy One to
see corruption.
11 Thou hast made known to me
the ways of life; thou wilt fill
me with joy with thy countenance:
at thy right hand [there are]
delights forever.
(Psalm 16:9-11 LXX)
Our eternal security is given in these verses from physically being glad of heart our whole being rejoices -- our flesh dwells securely. This speaks to us as spiritual and physical beings that are souls which inhabit physical bodies.
Verse 9 tells us our fleshly bodies will rest "in hope". What hope? For us it is the hope of the harpazo to come or what we've been calling the RR. That is the manifestation of our physical glorified bodies which will be eternal. From dust our mortal flesh comes and to dust our mortal flesh returns. But remember, we are souls that inhabit a body; not a body that has a soul.
Verse 10 plainly states *you* (being God),
"will not abandon my soul
to Sheol"
There it is. Soul. You (God) will not abandon my soul to Sheol (Hell). That's as clear as it gets. We who live in security will not be abandoned to Hell. Instead,
11 You make known to me
the path of life
...which is Christ Jesus Himself. He is The Path of Life. (John 14:6 ESV) The psalmist continues,
...in your presence there is
fullness of joy; at your
right hand are pleasures
forever more.
That basically nails it. Forevermore. That's eternity folks. When does our eternity begin? It begins the moment we say, "Yes!" to Jesus. We declare it each day we demonstrate (John 6:29) and (Romans 10:9-10) through our daily living.
God in Christ assures us we will not descend to Sheol. We will instead be at His right-hand forever more. If the Path of Life is Christ Jesus our Lord, and Jesus is BOTH fully man (The Second Adam) and God (Emmanuel) what shall it be? Did Jesus being fully man die upon the cross to lead us to blackness? Nothingness? Does Jesus lead us to darkness?
Absolutely not.
Christ died that we may live. He kept the Sabbath holy accomplishing everything before that day rose. He accomplished everything we could not.
Instead, we who abide in Christ live even though we die,
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the
resurrection and the life.
Whoever believes in me, though
he die, yet shall he live,
26 and everyone who lives and
believes in me shall never die.
Do you believe this?"
Red Letters (John 11:25-26 ESV)
This mystery is perhaps best illustrated in and demonstrated by baptism.
I share this for the benefit of all who will come to this space. Jesus tells us Himself our destination by faith and that we are made for eternity but Sheol awaits for those who stand on their own strength.
We are each accountable for our actions and beliefs. This is what I preach and stand upon as a teacher. YMMV, but that will be upon you on the coming Day. My charge is not to defend God, He speaks for Himself. My charge is to share the gospel as clearly as possible to those who seek and lead them not astray.
Blessings
The soul has nothing to do with spirit. You will not leave my soul(my physical existence) in hell. Not a place of torment. The hebrew word is Sheol which simply means the "grave". This is simply a prophecy that God wasnot going to leave his Son in the ground.
DeleteId like to address this to Rich from earlier. You misunderstand me. It is my position that when we die we dont go anywhere. Heaven or hell, UNTIL we are either raptured or facing the judgements depending on what group we are in and when we lived. I assure you, im no atheist.
ReplyDeleteThe early church theologians wrote about the four last things and what happens after we die. Here are a few links about that tradition:
ReplyDeleteFour Last Things: Death - Fr Ripperger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qent_bXkuYU
What is Purgatory?
https://aleteia.org/2016/10/07/3-little-known-details-about-purgatory/
No ofence
DeleteBut I just knew someone would bring up Purgatory from that Babylonian cult religion(Catholicism global institution).
Tertullian and others on praying for the dead
ReplyDeleteChurch Fathers on Purgatory
Mainer, thank you for that clarification. However, you have to admit your statement was rather blunt and could be seen as contradictory on it's face = "When we die we are dead-period. We do not go to heaven or hell. We are unconscious-dead. There is no life after death for anyone except for the one who truly defeated death. The Lord Jesus Christ." compared to "........when we die the next thought of us all when we die will be when we are face to face with the Lord Jesus......." Please try (actually don't try, DO) to be more specific when stating something like this that could be seen as controversial. Thanks, Rich
ReplyDeleteThank you Rich, lets try this. If you were to die today by whatever means. Im assuming that your saved. Lets say 10 yrs. 6 months and 5 days from now the rapture happens. During that time you will be totally unaware of the passage of time.
ReplyDeleteWhen we are dead we dont dream, theres nothing going on- were dead.
Right after you die, since your brain activity has ceased, the next thing that you will be aware of will be the rapture. Thats the way it will be with everyone whos dead, no matter how long.
Im not sure but the Apostle Paul died violently according to some of the things ive read, by beheading.
Its been roughly 2000 yrs., Paul willnot know that. His next awareness will be the rapture.
The O.T. saints will be brought back at the first resurrection after the tribulation. The second will be after the millenium when unbelievers will be judged.
When we die there will be no awareness of time and so it will seem like no time has passed at all.
Whether or not you agree, I hope this clears it up.
I have ordered a book that a friend of mine has to deal with the more difficult scriptures, some of them mentioned here. At some point im going to come back here and deal with them.
God bless
Mainer,
DeleteThere is a major difference between our physical, mortal bodies and our soul that inhabits the mortal body. In spirit we, the body of Christ, are with the Lord on our physical death while the body rests awaiting the harpazo. The body is only a vessel and a vessel that is to get an eternal *upgrade* at the rapture.
Heaven exists outside of our four dimensions. Our linear time is meaningless there. We all exist at once and living in a moment without end. In effect, we all arrive at the same time.
One must separate temporal thinking with eternal truth. In effect, we're all there already as God is present beginning and end. We've just not caught up with Him yet!
Sorry Pastor, I disagree. A person who is not saved is a person of body and soul. The body and the breath life that animates it. When we become saved we become body, soul and spirit. There is no spirit involved without the Holy Spirit.
DeleteIn the O.T. God put his spirit on the people who he wanted to represent him. It wasnt until Pentecost that God could actually live in his people. There is no spirit involved except for the one he gives to us when we become born again. When we die this gift of spirit lies with us until the gathering.
A PALM SUNDAY TEACHING MOMENT
Delete1 The burden of the word of
the Lord concerning Israel,
says the Lord, who stretches
out the heavens, and lays
the foundation of the earth,
and forms the spirit of man
inside him;
(Zechariah 12:1 TNK)
"...and forms the spirit of man inside of him" being "רוח אדם" or transliterated as "ruach adam" breath/wind/spirit of adam/man. This is vastly different from say,
2 And I have filled him
with the spirit of God,
in wisdom, and in under-
standing, and in knowledge,
and in all kinds of work-
manship"
(Exodus 31:3 TNK)
Here, "spirit of God" is "רוח אלהים" which literally means breath/spirit/wind of the powers/God(s) -- although "אלהים" rendered as masculine plural is treated as masculine singular.
These are but two examples of the difference of spirit regarding mankind. One is specific to man and one is specific to God -- both breathed by the Creator.
Blairagorn, sorry, but it doesn't much matter what someone wrote about if it is not based on the clear reading of Scripture. There is NO Purgatory. There is NO reason to pray for the dead, as their fate is sealed (and was before the foundation of the world). Jesus paid it ALL, and His sacrifice is/was sufficient to pay for ALL sin. There is NO being "cleaned up" or "purging" after someone breaths their last breath. All the praying in the world won't change anything for someone after their death. Also, praying to Mary is a waste of time, because she CAN'T HEAR YOU!. Only God is omniscient and omnipresent, not Mary who (by her own admission) needed a Savior.
ReplyDeleteRich ;
DeleteDitto, brother. I am an ex-Catholic and wasn't saved until I joined a Baptist Church and started reading the Bible and developed a personal relationship with Jesus. Blairagorn, as long as you know Jesus, believe He died for your sins, rose again, repent and ask Him to come in your heart, that's all that matters.........
Mainer, thanks again for that clarification. Yes, I think maybe we can agree about being unaware of anything from the time we take our last breath to the time of the RR. Then we who are believers will be in the presence of the Lord- 2 Cor. 5:8.
ReplyDeleteThere is a purgatory and the authentic church of Jesus Christ is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, aka the Catholic Church, and it has faithfully maintained real Christianity ever since the first apostles. Most of you here on this blog may be part of some other religion that recognizes the Word of God in the New Testament, and that's why I'm posting here, to help you get out of the yoke of some false teacher or gnostic heresy. May God bless you all.
ReplyDeleteSt Padre Pio is an amazing mystic to read about:
Padre Pio da Pietrelcina
The soul that sins..it (the soul) shall...die! Does that sound immortal or eternal? Ezekiel 18:4,20.
ReplyDeleteThis will be my last comment on this for now.
You don't even have to answer me back.
DeleteHere i my understanding of Body, Soul, and Spirit.
And God breathed into Adam and he became a living Soul.
Now your Spirit is what make you distinctive from everyone else.
That special something that is only You.
And that special something can not die.
Isn't this referring to the second death (aka lake of fire) as described in Revelation? The body dies first, then the soul (of the unbeliever, of course) gets judged and their soul experiences death, but for the believer, our soul never experienced death, only eternal life.
DeleteSecond death, right.
DeleteYes, the soul that dies refers to the second death (aka lake of fire).
DeleteBut here lies the question...*Where* is the lake of fire? Is it in the bowels of the Earth or is it in extra-dimensional space?
It's a curious question especially in regards to eternal suffering or long-suffering. Digging on the topic you may find it hard to tell if in Greek we understand it as "eternal" or "long" suffering? It can be read either way and the topic directly impacts if the condemned suffer eternally or for a very long-time before eventual and final destruction.
A potential point of study for anyone interested.
No matter what, "Don't be a grape!"
I have given it considerable study, PR. And, understandably, there is great deal of theological debate on both sides: "Do texts such as this speak of eternal punish-ING (with focus on the act of judging) or eternal punish-MENT (with focus on the effect of judgment)? In other words, what is it that is eternal or unending: the act of punishing unbelievers, or the effect of their punishment?
DeleteThere are many who adhere to ECT and several I hold in high regard.
However, on this one point, I'm finding myself more a true traditionalist, than a modern traditionalist. I'm still working on it.
It's too easy to label and assume that if one believes one thing that they must by association believe all.
What I believe is God's Word and am trying to studiously figure it out!
"Many, but not all, of those who affirm annihilationism are also conditionalists. That is to say, they deny that the soul is inherently or naturally immortal and affirm that it acquires immortality only when conferred by God (most often as a constituent element in the gift of salvation). Annihilationists who reject conditionalism simply assert that God, as a punitive act, deprives the unbeliever of immortality at some point subsequent to the final judgment. Most traditionalists affirm that whereas only God is inherently immortal, he irrevocably confers immortality on humans at creation.
There are even more subdivisions within these groups to further confuse the issue!
* * * *
I have given it considerable study, PR. And, understandably, there is great deal of theological debate on both sides: "Do texts such as this speak of eternal punish-ING (with focus on the act of judging) or eternal punish-MENT (with focus on the effect of judgment)? In other words, what is it that is eternal or unending: the act of punishing unbelievers, or the effect of their punishment?
I think Romans 6:23 is the clearest: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is ETERNAL life."
Essentially, this life is given to us a a time to choose whether to follow God. Or not.
Those who choose to do so are granted eternal life via salvation.
Those who choose not to follow God, are not granted eternal life.
And, I think THAT perhaps IS their eternal punishment - for isn't death eternal?
I cannot back it up specifically with a verse or even a few, but Given God's word as a whole, we know that our God is a God of purpose. Even his "vengeance" has a purpose.
Punishment towards and end - event the coming Tribulation is more about redemption than actual punishment!
That said to ask, to what purpose would it be to punish those for ETERNITY who have no further chance at redemption?
(This is where folks who disagree may bring in my presumptuousness, but God WANTS us to try to know Him!)
Other's also argue that, in terms of justice, God's punishments are in proportion to the offense, which, relative to our rather short life spans as compared to all of eternity, would be way out of proportion, no matter how evil we may have been.
* * * *
Just throwing it out there...
Hopefully, current events have folks pondering where they may end up. And, if they haven't made a decision for Christ yet, may hurriedly do so.
You got it right, this life is training for eternity or its nothing.
DeleteYour going to live eternaly somewhere.
All the Father gives Me will come to Me and I will no way cast out.
Jenny,
DeleteYou hit the nail on the head and your thoughts and questions are exactly the point I am getting at. Perhaps one of the most helpful and related verses in Scripture is (Revelation 22:12 ESV),
12 "Behold, I am coming soon,
bringing my recompense with me,
to repay each one for what he
has done."
To repay each for what they have done. Hmm. Verse 14 gives us a picture of those who,
"wash their robes, so that
they may have the right to
the tree of life and that
they may enter the city
by the gates."
(Revelation 22:14 ESV)
The word continues,
15 Outside are the dogs and
sorcerers and the sexually
immoral and murderers and
idolaters, and everyone who
loves and practices falsehood.
(Revelation 22:15 ESV)
That kinda says it all in a way. Separation of the sheep from the goats. Inclusion verse separation...and what is it that is included inside the gated walls?
The tree of life.
All who enter have right to the tree of life.
Certainly food for thought!
There are so many questions and only so many hours in a day to explore them. Thank you Father for the day to dig on your buried treasures!
Once, I was ignorant and blind; like a man being swept out to sea where I would surely perish. Jesus saw my distress before it fell upon me. He rescued me from myself, my own foolishness and short-sighted ways. In that I learned to Love Him because He Loved me first. In that I Loved Him because He saved me; Jesus died for me that I may be here today to share this hour with you.
Thank you Father for the wonderful gift of Your Only Begotten Son Jesus!
While discussing the topic at hand with my grandmother, we both came to the same conclusion... 'Why can't it be both ways, but describing different circumstances?'
ReplyDeleteWhile we're on this side of the Rapture, we just fast forward to it, as some of the verses seem to indicate... Meanwhile, the other verses are describing what we will be doing when we get there?
Overall, this feels like one of God's mysteries that He will need to explain to us for us to really 'get it.' I think we like to argue about these things too much because of our impatience in waiting for answers. Or too much time on our hands. Heh...
Morning all, interesting article on Breaking Israel News today:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.breakingisraelnews.com/148240/in-time-for-passover-4-6-earthquake-rocks-red-sea-where-jews-crossed/
Another potential rapture date is about to come and go today according to a celestial alignment in the stars, and were approaching 7,777,777,777 people on earth. Im not sure about the significance of either of these facts.
ReplyDeleteThis is just speculation on my part but could today be the 7 day warning before we reach the big number?
It could be, Mainer. The "triumphant" entry of Venus into the Pleiades happened on the Day of the Cross (4/3/0033), Jordan River Crossing, pick a lamb - one for each household and not more than one other milestone day in Biblical history for M1D10 (10 Nisan). This weekend has certainly been filled with tragic *contractions* and agonizing birth pains.
DeleteApril 4 marked another world record for single-day fatalities to COVID-19 this time in the United States. (1,224 deaths) I cannot begin to imagine the grief, torment and pain being experienced by the families impacted by such sudden and horrific loss.
God is reaching out to His creation through Christ. While Spring explodes all around us the tiniest of things (not even living) brings mankind to its knees. May we not be bent forcefully -- may we kneel as one with humble hearts that seek the LORD in prayer that by His breath this scourge be blown to nothingness and His abounding Love and merciful grace be poured out to the broken-hearted and grieving.
Please LORD, heal our hearts.
May the hearts of men be turned toward the G-D Almighty in humility and repentance that we may together turn away from our own paths and turn toward the path leading to the One. Amen.
Amen
DeleteBlairagorn wrote: "There is a purgatory and the authentic church of Jesus Christ is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, aka the Catholic Church".
ReplyDeleteThere may be purgatory for you, but NOT for myself or anyone that is a member of Christ's body= Christ's church. It is very clear to us that the head of Christ's church is Jesus Christ ALONE. Again, the R.C.C has a "Pope" as it's head. Also, those that are part of Christ's church (body) have been saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. Jesus did NOT need or have help from anyone. There is no salvation by any other name= Jesus. The Roman Catholic doctrine of Mary having a part in your salvation is patently false. Mary has NO Salvific ability or authority. If one thinks Mary had any part in their salvation, then Jesus had NO part in their salvation. A simple reading of Ephesians chapter 1: 3-14 is proof enough for me. The R.C.C. has many other false teachings in their Catechism, and therefore is a false religion.
ReplyDeletePredictions:
What I see is that God's signs are an interconnected web that provides context and deeper meaning to the individual signs, and this big picture of signs is pointing to:
1) Trump will die of a heart attack on April 13th. It will be the "last trump" sign.
2) The barge/Ark will go over Niagara Falls on April 6th. This will be a symbolic 7 days to load the Ark before the last trump sign.
3) The End Times will begin on Pentecost on June 7th, 2020
I am not a prophet. God has been pouring out easy-to-understand and interpret End Times signs that Christians were commanded to watch for, that have revealed these conclusions.
After the barge goes over Niagara Falls on April 6th make sure watch to this entire video, and then the entire video series.
https://youtu.be/RNgrGGH-rRY
If the day were knowable, the main reason for knowing would be to take action, which would include warning others of the date. However, at this point most people would not believe anyone else anyway, and so it makes sense that this is how God would do it. He would use someone to learn His big picture of signs, and reveal these predictions ahead of time in order to prove this big picture of signs and the conclusions for the date. This is how prophecy works, and it is the reason why 1/4 of the Bible is prophecy. For God to prove the matter. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, Rev 19:10.
This is a link to a video that explains how it is known that the barge that has been stuck on the rocks of the Niagara River for 101 years will go over Niagara Falls on April 6th, 2020. Also, this video explains how it is known that 7 days later President Trump will die of heart attack on April 13th, 2020.
The big picture of signs necessitates that these conclusions are absolutely, and inextricably tied to the following conclusions, and therefore, when these events come to pass on April 6th and April 13th this will prove certain the following other conclusions. 1) The date the End Times begins is knowable, and it is certain beyond a reasonable doubt that it will be on Pentecost on June 7th, 2020. 2) The identities of the two Antichrists are knowable, and it is certain that they are Pope Francis and Barack Obama. 3) The Lord is pouring out judgment warning signs specifically on the American evangelical church for its Nicolaitan deeds and doctrine that Jesus said he hates in Revelation chapter 2. This Nicolaitan doctrine that produces Nicolaitan deeds and the lukewarm Church of Laodicea that is the American evangelical church is Calvinism, Free Grace, and their offspring doctrines of Once Save Always Saved, and that all Christians will be raptured. The nation and the world is a mess because the Church is a mess, and judgment begins with the Church, as Peter wrote. 4) The Lord's End Times signs is a big picture puzzle, in which each piece is dependent on the other pieces for their full, true intended meaning. This is why these conclusions are inextricably tied together.
For example, the big picture of signs revealed with certainty since last May that March 11th 2020 would be the penultimate date before the End Times begins, and that something very significant and bad would occur on March 11th. On this day the WHO officially declared coronavirus to be a pandemic, and Trump, God's trumpet that He uses to confirm His signs, delivered his prophetic 11 minute Oval Office address that ended precisely as the clock on the live tv news screen ticked 9:11 pm. As well, God is using basketball signs that connect with coronavirus and Trump's death, and the NBA became the symbolic first league to shutdown on March 11th. On March 11th a sports story involving three, and only three, NFL teams - the Philadelphia Eagles, Steelers, and Saints - confirmed that many Christians will be left behind. When these events come to pass on April 6th and April 13th this will prove that this method of interpreting the signs as a whole, rather than isolated events, is correct. Similar to how the Bible needs to be interpreted as a whole, rather than through selectively using isolated passages to prove something. If you truly love the Lord's signs, after these events come to pass I'm sure you will want to watch every minute of this long video series that explains the Lord's big picture of End Times signs. Every minute is important and mind boggling. Knowing ahead of time the date of the last trump sign and Trump's death will arguably be the most important achievement of the watching community. I believe the watching community should unite around, and focus on, getting this information out about how this was known ahead of time. May His peace be with you.
DeleteDarren
YouTube clearlywrittendotnet
https://youtu.be/RNgrGGH-rRY
Back again, moving the goalposts again. This person is deeply troubled and unwell, and they seem to be having a high time of it.
Deleteyep, here we go again.......Heheheheheeh.
Delete