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Babylon the Great


There have been a couple of occasions over the years when an email question or comment from a reader has triggered me to write another article, and I suppose I can add this one to the list. And here's how I got here:

A couple of months ago, I wrote an article about the fact that many prophecy folks are looking forward to the complete destruction of Damascus in a presumed fulfillment of Isaiah 17:1. But not all students of prophecy see it that way: Some believe this prophecy was completely fulfilled in history and thus see no need for a future fulfillment.

In that article, I look at both sides of the argument and in the end I concede that I am officially on the fence. Although I tend to lean toward the historical fulfillment interpretation, I freely admit that it could go either way.

But at one point in the article, I make mention of a prophecy in Isaiah 13:19–20 concerning the destruction of Babylon:

19Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans' pride, will be like when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. [That is, utter decimation. But will it remain that way forever? That's the question.]

20It will never be inhabited, neither will it be lived in from generation to generation. [Yep...forever. Isaiah couldn't possibly be any clearer.] The Arabian will not pitch a tent there, neither will shepherds make their flocks lie down there. [No people, no sheep, nothing.]

(Isaiah 13:19–20 / emphasis & [comments] added)

I indicated that I (along with many others) believe this has been fulfilled in history in spite of claims to the contrary, just as some believe the destruction of Damascus was fulfilled. I note that some disagree and are convinced Isaiah's prophecy concerning Babylon has not been fulfilled, and as a result are sold on the idea that the literal city of Babylon must be rebuilt in the end times only to be destroyed during the Great Tribulation because of what they read in Revelation 17–18. Here's a pertinent quote from that article:

An end-times Babylon? Some people believe Babylon will be rebuilt in the end times due to references to it in Revelation 17 and 18. Many Bible commentators are convinced, however, that rather than references to the literal city of Babylon, these are references to religious, political, and/or commercial aspects of the kingdom of the Antichrist. You be the judge.

You be the judge. Indeed. Not long ago, however, I received a polite email from a very nice, astute reader about how the prophecies concerning Babylon's destruction had apparently not been completely, literally fulfilled in history as I indicated, and he linked to an article that purported to offer proof to that effect. For example, it showed photographic evidence that there had been some people living in the area of ancient Babylon in modern times, and that a few of the original stones had been reused for various purposes.

The intended upshot of this information was to prove that Isaiah's prophecy concerning Babylon was not fulfilled in history, and so the destruction of Babylon John refers to in Revelation 17–18 had to be that fulfillment: John must be referring to the literal city of Babylon, which must be rebuilt in the end times, must become the headquarters of the Antichrist's kingdom, and must be annihilated during the Great Tribulation by the hand of God.

That reader's email provided the spark, and I couldn't get Babylon and Revelation 17–18 out of my head. Yes...Babylon the Great. So that's what brought me to this article—and to the question of whether Revelation 17–18 requires the literal city of Babylon in Iraq to be rebuilt and become the religious, political, and economic powerhouse of the world in the Antichrist's kingdom, only to be destroyed by God during the Great Tribulation...

Or if Revelation 17–18 is talking about something different.

First, let me make it clear what I'm not going to do in this article:

I am not going to try and conclusively prove to you that John is referring to the religious, political, and commercial aspects of the Antichrist's kingdom, and not necessarily a literal city (even though I lean in this direction).

I am not going to try and conclusively prove to you that John is referring to the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon. (I freely admit that I held this view for many years, although now I see problems with it.)

I am not going to try and conclusively prove to you that when John speaks of Babylon in Revelation 17–18, he is really talking about some other city such as Rome, Jerusalem, both, or some other city (views held by many people).

My goal in this article is quite simple: I basically just want to share with you some thoughts on Babylon. I want you to understand a few of the reasons why I am convinced that no matter what our interpretation of Revelation 17–18 may be, none of us will ever know for absolute certain exactly what Revelation 17–18 really means in all its powerful, prophetic splendor until God sovereignly chooses to reveal it to us...which is likely to be when or perhaps not long before these things actually unfold during the Tribulation. In other words:

We might as well put away the soapboxes on this one.

Now, don't get me wrong...I'm kidding, but just barely. We can all certainly have our personal opinions and our arguments to support those opinions about what these two chapters mean—I know I've got mine and many of you out there have yours. There's never anything wrong with a little healthy debate carried on in the spirit of trying to ferret out what God's Word is saying to us. It's just that I am convinced that none of us will ever figure this out with 100 percent certainty prior to God's sovereign timing, and by the time I finish I trust you will understand why I say that.

Since that reader's email focused on viewing Revelation 17–18 as referring to a literal, rebuilt city of Babylon on the Euphrates River in Iraq, what I want to do here is take that interpretation of John's prophecy and discuss some of the problems with it. In the process, I will touch on other related points and by the time we get to the finish line I hope you can appreciate the fact that no interpretation of these two chapters is absolutely airtight.

In other words, in the end, I just want you to see that there are no easy answers as to how to correctly interpret Revelation 17–18, and I want you to understand in no uncertain terms why that is the case. And as a result, I sincerely believe my above remark about putting away the soapboxes on this one will turn out to have a ring of commonsense truth to it.

The literal view (and some of its weaknesses)

The view of Revelation 17–18 that sees the need for a literal, rebuilt city of Babylon in the end times is a popular view that is shared by some great commentators I deeply respect, including Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Andy Woods, Joel Rosenberg, Chuck Missler, Mark Hitchcock, and others.

After the fall of Saddam Hussein's government, some of these commentators went so far as to hail what they believed was a new beginning for Iraq, and gushed about how a shiny, rebuilt Babylon was surely on the horizon that would make their anticipated fulfillment of Revelation 17–18 a reality at long last.

Although there have been attempts in the last couple of decades to get something going in regard to rebuilding the ancient city of Babylon, nothing has ever really gotten off the ground and gained much momentum. It was little more than a grandiose vanity project under Saddam Hussein, who fancied himself as a modern-day King Nebuchadnezzar. Unfortunately, he had a few walls rebuilt with ordinary concrete instead of the more suitable mud and straw-baked bricks and actually ended up doing more harm than good to some of the existing ruins. So...at least for now, Babylon ain't lookin' so great.

Overall, such efforts haven't made it past the preliminary stages and any such project has floundered in spite of the best efforts of some well-intentioned people. Of course, that doesn't mean Babylon will never be rebuilt—that could still happen at some point in the future. As I said, I'm not out to disprove the literal view because it could be right.

But this view is not without problems, and I want to briefly consider a few of the issues with the idea of interpreting Revelation 17–18 to mean there will be a literal, rebuilt city of Babylon in Iraq during the Tribulation.

Literal precision or apocalyptic hyperbole?

Long before John wrote the book of Revelation, the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah wrote prophecies concerning the fate of the wicked city of Babylon. And although Isaiah 13–14 and Jeremiah 50–51 certainly encompass the fall of Babylon that would occur later in 539 BC, students of the Bible argue about how much of what they prophesy bleeds over into the last days—and it's difficult to discount the possibility that some of it does.

Like any semi-competent student of Scripture, I agree that the Bible should be interpreted as literally as common sense and context allow. But there are times when we have to decide if a passage of Scripture contains some graphic details that are meant to be taken literally, or if the writer is using exaggerated images to emphasize his point and paint a gloriously graphic image of something God is telling us He is going to do in the future.

For example, in Isaiah 13:19 the prophet says the fall of Babylon will be like "when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah," which, as you know, involved annihilation so sudden and so devastating that it calls to mind the image of a meteorite striking the earth. In Jeremiah 50:15 the prophet says that "her walls are thrown down," or completely razed. But these things never actually happened—not in the sixth century BC and at no time since.

Yes, Babylon was clearly conquered by the Medes in 539 BC; but as far as the walls are concerned, the Medes just snuck in under them and staged a coup (Dan. 5). As a result, most of Babylon's magnificent infrastructure remained intact, although the city was ultimately left abandoned by around AD 900–1000 and the city's massive walls slowly crumbled into ruins over the centuries.

Of course, if these prophecies have already been completely fulfilled, then there is no reason we should require a literal, rebuilt Babylon in the future.

But if their complete fulfillment is still future, then we have no choice but to look forward to that fulfillment in the end times.

And that's part of the problem here. Both Isaiah and Jeremiah use a healthy dose of what I like to refer to as "apocalyptic hyperbole" in describing Babylon's fall. And by that I simply mean powerful, colorful, and evocative words and phrases that paint a vivid, often terrifying picture of what God intends to accomplish, which is frequently connected with His judgment on some city, nation, or people group.

In using such language, however, Isaiah and Jeremiah sometimes describe things in ways that don't correspond with the literal details of what occurred in the fall of Babylon in 539 BC. But we can't discount the possibility that they are using such language to magnify and glorify what God said He would do.

Or should we ignore the events of 539 BC and await a literal fulfillment of these prophecies concerning the destruction of Babylon? Or should we interpret the word "city" figuratively and go in a different direction??

Welcome to the prophetic crossroads.

The point is that many prophecy people argue that the context in each of these two prophetic passages skips by the sixth century BC, and speaks directly to the end times as does Revelation 17–18 (some say Isaiah and Jeremiah are speaking to both 539 BC and the end times). This makes them argue that there must be a real humdinger of a fall of Babylon in our future in which the prophets' graphic words are literally fulfilled.

And that requires a rebuilt Babylon.

So, for those who see the need for a literal, rebuilt Babylon during the Tribulation, the argument goes basically like this:

1. Both Isaiah and Jeremiah were prophesying in regard to the end times (or at least their prophecies can be viewed as extending to the end times).

2. Their prophecies concerning the fall of Babylon were clearly never fulfilled in history, at least not in the literal sense.

3. Since Revelation 17–18 clearly draws upon these two prophetic passages, John must be expanding on these prophecies and describing a yet future literal fulfillment of Babylon's destruction.

4. And that requires a rebuilt Babylon. Q.E.D.

But others ague that this is not necessarily required based on what I said about apocalyptic hyperbole. Your quarter, your call.

Hey, what about Edom, Moab, and Ammon?!

Another problem we run into in regard to interpreting Revelation 17–18 as requiring Babylon to be rebuilt in the end times so it can experience God's prophesied judgment during the Tribulation has to do with other biblical cities and areas that have been promised something quite similar.

And they have bitten the historical dust just like Babylon.

Case in point: Edom, Moab, and Ammon. In Ezekiel 35, the prophet talks about how God will judge people groups who have long hated and fought against His people Israel, and Ezekiel prophesies against Mount Seir. Mount Seir includes Edom, Moab, and Ammon, and in verse 14 the prophet writes:

14Thus said the Lord GOD; When the whole earth rejoices, I will make you desolate. ["You" refers to Mount Seir: Edom, Moab, and Ammon.]

(Ezekiel 35:14 AKJV / emphasis & [comments] added)

Now, some people pin this to historical times, and they could be right. Others say it is an end-time judgment on all of Israel's enemies in that region, and they could be right. Some say the most likely time when "the whole earth rejoices" would be the climax of the Great Tribulation when God finally judges His enemies and establishes the kingdom He promised His people so long ago. But here's the problem:

If God judges and destroys Edom, Moab, and Ammon in the Tribulation (as He does Babylon), then does that mean these three kingdoms must be literally reconstructed to their biblical form, just like the city of Babylon??

And if not, why not? Why should we require a literal, rebuilt Babylon that will be judged and destroyed by God in the Great Tribulation, but not a literal, rebuilt Edom, Moab, and Ammon if these will also be judged and destroyed around the same time by the same God? Why does Babylon deserve special treatment?

And the walls came a-tumblin' down: While I'm at it, note that if we need a rebuilt Babylon to fulfill the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and John, we need a Babylon that resembles the original. Sources differ, but we need a Babylon with something like 50–60 miles of walls that were about 80 feet thick and over 300 feet tall. The Babylonians held chariot races on top of these walls! And if Jeremiah says her walls must be thrown down, that means our literal, rebuilt Babylon must have walls for this to be fulfilled in the end times.

And we're talkin' W-A-L-L-S.

Anything less just doesn't cut the literal mustard, all while the results of the best efforts at "rebuilding" Babylon wouldn't make a decent amusement park.

In reality, most commentators believe prophecies of such end-time judgments should be interpreted to mean that the regions formerly occupied by those people groups will experience some kind of judgment in the Tribulation. And as I said, some take such prophecies in a broader sense to refer to eschatological judgment on all of Israel's regional enemies in a collective sense.

A little of this, a little of that.

Many who interpret Revelation 17–18 as speaking to a literal, rebuilt Babylon in the end times make the following argument:

"It's clear that Revelation 17–18 draws heavily from Isaiah 13–14 and Jeremiah 50–51 concerning Babylon's destruction, and so John must also be focusing on Babylon in a literal sense. Thus John must be rehashing the same prophecies in regard to Babylon's final, end-time destruction."

It's true that John does draw from both Isaiah and Jeremiah's prophecies, but there are problems with this argument. The problem is that in Revelation 17–18 John also draws from Old Testament prophecies concerning a number of other cities, and in so doing effectively creates a prophetic composite of an end-time "Babylon" that hasn't necessarily been revealed to modern readers yet. Two of the prime candidates are as follows:

Rome:

Back in John's day, few people would have missed the reference to a city that sits on seven hills or mountains (Rev. 17:9), which had long been and still is to this day a symbol of Rome. Not only that, but the word "Babylon" was often used by first-century believers to refer to Rome, which was the world's capital of idolatry and religious persecution.

Jerusalem:

Throughout the Old Testament, the word "harlot" is used in reference to a disobedient and idolatrous Israel (2 Chron. 21:11; Ezek. 16:15, etc.), and John uses the word "harlot" here in his prophecy against Babylon (Rev. 17:5). Not only that, but John's description of the woman's garments (Rev. 17:4) clearly calls to mind the garments of Israel's high priest (Exod. 28:5).

Similarly, Revelation 17–18 can also be said to draw references to Sodom and Gomorrah, Tyre, Edom, and Nineveh, but I won't take the time to go down these particular rabbit holes because the details are not essential to the point I want to make.

The point is that what this suggests to us is that instead of insisting that Revelation 17–18 must be speaking exclusively of a literal, rebuilt Babylon as many believe, perhaps we should consider the possibility that John's prophecy points to all of these cities in a collective sense, and for a reason. And that reason may be that John's prophecy is actually painting a composite picture of something that didn't exist in his day, and that won't be revealed until a time preordained by God. And that could conceivably be the Antichrist's kingdom.

The devil is in the details.

Many people who adhere to the view that Babylon must literally be rebuilt in the end times fly right by one small detail that constitutes a key difference between the Babylon of Jeremiah 51 and that of Revelation 18. The following two passages reveal this minor but telling detail.

In Jeremiah 51, we are told this:

63And it shall be, when you have made an end of reading this book, that you shall bind a stone to it, and cast it into the middle of Euphrates: [i.e. into the middle of a river] 64And you shall say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring on her:

(Jeremiah 51:63–64a AKJV / emphasis & [comments] added)

But in Revelation 18, we are told this:

21And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, [i.e. into the sea, not a river] saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

(Revelation 18:21 AKJV / emphasis & [comments] added)

The literal city of Babylon was on the Euphrates River, but nearly 300 miles from the nearest sea (which would have been the Persian Gulf). A river and a sea are two very different things. Follow along carefully:

If the angel casts the stone into the Euphrates River, then he is not throwing it into the sea.

If the angel casts the stone into the sea, then he is not throwing it into the Euphrates River.

There are a number of differences between Revelation 17–18 and both Isaiah 13–14 and Jeremiah 50–51, and this may well be the most trivial of the bunch. But it's still a difference that raises legitimate questions about whether or not Revelation 17–18 is talking about a literal, rebuilt city of Babylon or something different and perhaps a bit more more figurative.

Or perhaps I should say a bit more mysterious.

It's a mystery.

At this point, I hope that at the very least I have impressed upon you the fact that properly interpreting Revelation 17–18 is no easy task, and even the most popular views have at least some weaknesses and difficulties, some of which are not easy to effectively answer.

But there is one extremely important detail in John's prophecy that many good people seem to just blow right by as it if were a triviality that didn't really matter or mean much. And that one little detail lays it all to rest, and tells us in no uncertain terms that we will never know the correct interpretation of Revelation 17–18 with certainty until God chooses to reveal it to us. And that detail is one single word:

5And on her forehead a name was written, "MYSTERY, [Greek: mustérion] BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

(Revelation 17:5 / emphasis & [comments] added)

And that one single word would be "mystery." In reality, using the word "mystery" here is almost redundant, because virtually everything in these two chapters is an impenetrable mystery that people have been arguing about for the last two thousand years and continue to argue about to this day.

Recall, however, that the Greek word mustérion John uses in this verse has a special meaning throughout the New Testament, and I'll defer to Strong's Lexicon for the details:

In the New Testament, "mustérion" refers to a divine secret or truth that is hidden from human understanding but revealed by God through His Spirit. [When He's good and ready to reveal it, that is.] It often pertains to God's redemptive plan, which was once concealed but is now disclosed to believers. The term underscores the idea that certain aspects of God's will and purpose are beyond human comprehension until God chooses to reveal them.

(emphasis & [comments] added)

Strong's Lexicon [Source]

Note also that when the angel begins to tell John about the "mystery" in Revelation 17:7, it becomes clear that the word "mystery" applies to pretty much the entire prophecy, not just the details concerning the city he refers to as "Babylon the Great." Then the angel proceeds to use other symbols to "explain" the mystery, so at the end of the day it's all still a bit mysterious.

And that's the point. John's vision concerning Babylon is a mustérion, and by definition that means its true meaning will remain a mystery until the time comes for God to reveal it to us—which will be whenever all this begins to unfold with undeniable clarity.

Time-bloat.

One final point that I want to mention has about as much to do with plain old ordinary common sense as it does with interpreting the text of Scripture.

And it is a point that virtually nobody ever seems to stop and consider.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard someone casually make a remark like the following:

"Revelation 17–18 is clearly telling us that during the Tribulation, Babylon will be rebuilt to its former glory and become the seat of the Antichrist's global government, a global religion, and a global economic system."

Can I get an amen. But what say we pause for a moment and start thinking like civil engineers, shall we?

Have you ever stopped to consider how long it would take to build a world-class city pretty much from scratch? And that is basically what we are talking about here. Those with the literal view see this Babylon the Great that John is prophesying about as a shiny new metropolis that is the political, economic, and religious powerhouse of the entire world—the seat of a global government, a global economic system, and a global religion. For them, Babylon is a literal city that according to Revelation 17:18 will reign over the kings of the earth. And again, they might be right.

Of course, those with alternative viewpoints might argue that a city cannot literally rule over the kings of the earth—only a system of global government can do that. So, they might say, get over the idea that John's Babylon the Great has to refer to a literal city. And in response, others would likely accuse them of nitpicking. But nitpicking or no, the point is this:

When people talk about such a city being built during the seven-year Tribulation, they have entered the prophetic twilight zone.

I did a bit of reading online about the building of cities just to satisfy my curiosity, and of course opinions vary widely. It obviously depends on a number of factors, and estimates range from a blazing, turbo-charged five years to a laboriously long 30–40 years. I read enough to convince me, however, that a realistic estimate for the building of a powerhouse of a city with today's technology that would warrant being called "Babylon the Great" would likely be in the 10–15 year range (and even that may be lowballing it).

So, let's dispense with the idea that this shiny new Babylon is built during the Tribulation. I'm sorry, but that's bordering on the absurd—that's just not gonna happen. It simply makes no sense.

Let's think this through for a moment: Revelation 6:2 seems to indicate that the Antichrist begins his meteoric rise to global power around the beginning of the Tribulation (going out "conquering and to conquer"), and his actual 42-month kingdom begins at its midpoint. If a literal Babylon would take 10–15 years to build, for one thing that would confirm what Scripture seems to indicate, which is that this global system is already in place when the Antichrist assumes power in his kingdom. In other words, before the midpoint of the Tribulation, that literal Babylon would need to be finished and ready to go.

Not for him: I believe that the system of global government the Antichrist assumes control of was not created for him—it appears that he works himself into the right place at the right time and when that right time comes, Satan arranges for his man to take the reins of power. Satan will have groomed this man for such a role in the end times, and the Antichrist takes control of a global system that has already been put in place.

But if this rebuilt Babylon is to be the seat of the Antichrist's kingdom (which begins at the midpoint of the Tribulation), and only the giddiest of optimists would say that the construction of this literal Babylon has so much as gotten off the ground, it would tell us that the midpoint of the Tribulation is at least 10–15 years in the future (assuming construction began today). That, in turn, tells us that the treaty of Daniel 9:27 that launches the Tribulation is at least 7–12 years away—let's just say about a decade. And that is theoretically possible.

But that presents us with the $64,000 question:

Q. How does that jive with the current flow of prophetic events?

This is sure to raise some questions in the minds of many prophecy watchers. Obviously I can't sit here and tell you that things can't work out this way, because they can. But to many watchmen, I'm sure putting off the launching of Tribulation for another decade (or more) would seem like a bit of a stretch considering the way the prophetic scenario is advancing and rapidly congealing. On the plus side, however, don't forget one important fact:

The good news is that this "time-bloat"

issue has nothing to do with the Rapture.

The Rapture could happen today, and the

end-time scenario would shift into overdrive.

The bottom line is that this literal, rebuilt Babylon point of view forces us to fundamentally reassess our ideas about the timing of key end-time events, and consider ways to fit a bigger piece into the puzzle. As a result, this time-bloat factor the literal view unavoidably introduces might cause some to discount the literal interpretation of Revelation 17–18 and consider other interpretive angles. And that's the whole point:

There are other interpretive angles to consider.

Silly old Satan

As you can see, I'm really not here to sell you anything in this article. I just want to emphasize that there are plenty of good people with different views of the interpretation of John's prophecy in Revelation 17–18, and get across to you the fact that those views invariably have questions associated with them that are not always easy to answer. And in the end...

I am convinced that the Word itself clearly tells us that none of us will ever know the mystery of this prophecy for certain until God reveals it.

Many do not see the requirement for a literal, rebuilt city of Babylon, so at least they can say goodbye to the time-bloat issue, for one thing. Some see John's prophecy as simply speaking to a global leader who, along with a global religion, a global government, and a global economic system, will rule the world in the end times and will hunt down and execute millions of believers in the Tribulation with no need for a literal, rebuilt Babylon on the Euphrates River.

Some see Revelation 17–18 speaking of a literal city, but just not a rebuilt Babylon. As I mentioned, some believe John is speaking of Rome or Jerusalem. Some even say Mecca, although that's based on the assumption that the global religion in the end times is Islam (and they assume this because they believe the Antichrist is a Muslim).

Although it is a popular view, I disagree with the idea that the global religion of the end times is Islam (in spite of the fact that I agree with the argument that the Antichrist will likely be from a Muslim background). I think jumping to the conclusion that Islam in its current form will be the global religion of the Antichrist's kingdom is a weak view born largely of convenience that ignores a wealth of compelling facts (although it does sell a lot of books on prophecy).

Personally, I believe the end-time global religion will be something that leaves Islam in the proverbial dust. I've written about this before, but I strongly suspect it will involve supposed contact with a phony alien race that allegedly seeks to help mankind evolve spiritually, get through the coming time of "earth changes" (i.e. the judgments of the Tribulation), and stop foolishly clinging to archaic myths such as the Bible. And anyone who doesn't go all in on this will be seen as a danger to the future of the earth and of the human race, and will have to be eliminated for the good of all of mankind.

Hey, if I'm wrong, then ever since 1947*, silly old Satan has been wasting his time trying to convince the world there are aliens out there who have been visiting us for years in their super-duper spacecraft (that inexplicably keep crashing in the desert on a regular basis) and who are just dying to introduce themselves to us and show off their cool technology.

(*And I'm sure it's just a bizarre coincidence that the UFO/alien narrative was born near Roswell, New Mexico the moment it became clear that the U.N. would approve the establishment of an independent nation for the Jews in accordance with Bible prophecy.)

And I can't discount the possibility that the same silly old Satan has been the one who has tried and failed numerous times to get people to rebuild the ancient city of Babylon into a city from which his man the Antichrist will rule the world, presumably because he holds to the literal view of Revelation 17–18 with its rebuilt Babylon we have been discussing in this article.

No? Hey, if God says something in Scripture is a mustérion, I guaran-dog-tee you Satan is in the same position we're in:

He ain't gonna know exactly how to interpret it either until God reveals it.


From Greg Lauer @ A Little Strength—APR '25
Post A Comment

77 comments:

  1. When we read Rev. 17 and 18, we see that Mystery Babylon's role in the end times is to be the global purveyor of luxurious living. She is a city/nation/system that thrives as the center of world trade - trade which promotes greed, luxuriousness and fornication to all the world's other peoples. Which city/nation/system on the current world scene promotes those three specific sins? I would argue: not current day Rome; not current day Iraq; and not current day Jerusalem. I would argue that a hermeneutic that views Mystery Babylon through the lens of the current day United States of America makes the most sense. This linkage is further supported by considering that the apostle Peter and John the Revelator both referred to the ancient Roman empire as 'Babylon' in coded language in the New Testament. Current day Rome is not the center of a global military power. Some like Dave Hunt argue that the Roman Catholic Church fits the bill as Mystery Babylon. However, it's hard to see how such could be the case, as the Vatican is not a promoter of global luxuriousness, greed and fornication; nor is it the head of a military power with a Senate/emperor/etc. in the way ancient Rome was.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have to agree with you, Zachary,

      Ty Green recently did an interesting study on this and (IIRC) came to the same conclusions. I believe that Mystery Babylon is a system, society, uni-polar economic/military/social power that has sway over (lords itself over) the multi-polar beast system. Once she is destroyed in a day by fire (Revelation 18:8), nobody will found living in her ever again. She will be destroyed from the face of the earth and never rise again. This is not to say that nobody will be living in the United States or that the US will cease to exist. It may simply mean that the socio-economic system that has been the United States, as it has been since the end of World War II, has come to an end and is no longer the global super-power that it was economically, militarily, politically or socially. If any nation on the face of the earth is a living image of ancient Rome it is America.

      4 Then I heard another voice from
      heaven saying, "Come out of her,
      my people, lest you take part in
      her sins, lest you share in her plagues;

      (Revelation 18:4 ESV)


      It is a hard thing to say, yet it is the truth. Judgment is coming on the inhabitants of the earth and Babylon the Great will be stripped bare and laid waste. Trim your lamps and keep them filled at all times and be ready for the coming of the Bridegroom. Fill your heart with the Love of (and for) the LORD sharing Him with all God gives you. Love Him first and foremost as the midnight hour approaches. Keep His Word and do not deny His Name. His Word is Christ and His Name is Jesus!

      Maranatha,


      PR

      Delete
  2. I am and have been for a long time an advocate of Jer 50 and 51 describing America and her downfall. Both chapters describe a nation that is eerily descriptive of the USA as a nation, (not a city) seeing it lists cities in plural in one verse about their destruction. This one is described as the "Daughter of Babylon" and specifies the end times in another verse. There is even a verse about Fortifying the heights to heaven (Space Force?) yet she will fall from within. And a verse about filling her with young men (from other places) Open Borders anyone?

    I consider Rev 17-18 to be about the false religion to come and how it rides the beast until it is devoured and decimated. This one is described as a Mystery (Religion) and is a city on 7 hills.

    I've wondered in recent times if that might reference the 7 Mountains Mandate stuff. It certainly could describe the Vatican City in whatever form the religion ends up in the future with the Abraham Accords.

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  3. In other words, I don't believe that Jer 50 & 51 are talking about the same Babylon as Rev 17 & 18.

    America prides itself in everything, considers itself the center of all things great.

    Everyone asks the question why is she not listed in the Bible? I submit she is and is given the name of "Daughter of Babylon" based on her attributes.

    The names of the evil person or nation are often not spoken or even remembered in scripture, only their nature as a lesson to be learned.

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  4. The last and the greatest of the Babylonic religions currently practiced by 1.6 billion people has a religious city in the desert by the sea. It is next to the port city of Jeddah Saudi Arabia on the red sea, a highly used water way for the oil and luxury goods that the house of Saud transports both in and out of Saudi Arabia. It is there that the ARABIAN pitches his tent.

    That same religion which surrounds Israel currently is seeking to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. It is full of violent hatred. And is the only religion that currently exist whos stated goal is the eradication of all Jews and Christians preferably by beheading in order to establish a global caliphate with Jerusalem as their capital. They are patiently waiting the appearance of their mahdi and his helper Issa the returned Prophet Jesus of Islam who they believe will be a destroyer of crosses and lead the Christians and the rest of the world to Islam. And those that will not submit are to be killed by smiting their necks in the last great global jihad.

    The only thing that would be necessary to whip the Islamic world into a final Jihad killing spree would be for them to become convinced that their mahdi had arrived and their Prophet Jesus had returned. And all that that would really take is a Man claiming to be the Jesus of Islam doing signs and miracles and lying wonders calling fire down from heaven and wiping them into an apocalyptic frenzy. The last great Jihad.

    Imagine what 1.6 billions muslims convinced that their end times had come and that they are to convert or kill their neighbors all around the world would be like. That would look like Isis only everywhere at once. Most don't know but Isis was motivated primarily by their belief in apocalyptical Islam. Isis was our first real glimpse of apocalyptic Islam. Forget clashing armies those armies would be useless against Muslim true believers scattered throughout all the nations of the earth becoming demonically violent in the name of their mahdi and Issa Jesus of Islam. That would truly be violence unlike anything that has ever been or ever could be again. Peace genuinely taken from all four corners of the earth.

    Europe would be a blood bath if the 10s of millions of military age muslim men that they have imported became convinced that the time of the mahdi had come. All it would really take would be Jesus of Islam their prophet showing up calling fire down from heaven and proclaiming the Christians as wrong and Islam as the one true way. He would be in appearance as a lamb (the lamb of God) but would speak like a dragon.

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  5. Rev 18:18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’ 19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:

    “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
    where all who had ships on the sea
    became rich through her wealth!
    In one hour she has been brought to ruin!’

    As politically incorrect as it is to point out, it's undeniable that there are several very eerie connections between the book of Revelation and the Sept 11 attacks in the USA. The passage above states that "in one hour" Mystery Babylon meets her downfall; the attacks in NYC and Washington took place approximately within the space of an hour. "The smoke of her burning" in the passage above is reminiscent of the awful footage of smoke streaming into the sky above NYC. Furthermore, Rev 18:23: "Your merchants were the world’s important people." Wall Street markets had to be shut down in the immediate aftermath of that day. Additionally, Rev 7 describes a city that sits on seven hills. Washington DC sits on seven hills and was the other city attacked on that day. The Statue of Liberty, which stands right next to where the towers were located, wears a Roman toga. The Statue of Liberty also has many strange parallels with the angel in Revelation 10.

    It was terrible to see the loss of innocent life on that day. But was September 11 a sort of divine warning about our nation's future fate? A prefiguration of sorts, on a smaller scale, that we would ignore at our peril?

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  7. I think that it is very likely that Europe with its Revived Roman Empire will make trade relations with the Middle East. Babylon which will be a megacity in the Middle East, will be the global trade and economics hub. Saudi Arabia is currently building the megacity NEOM, could this be the Babylon of Revelations 17 and 18?

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  8. All of the above makes perfect sense. Maybe Yah, in His Inimitable fashion, has put the whole world on notice.

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  9. The strongest evidence for a rebuilt Babylon is from Zechariah 5:5-11. It details some kind of temple or building built to house Wickedness. It specifically uses the word Shinar to describe where it would be built, which is roughly the area where Babylon is. Zechariah was a prophet active after the Babylonian exile, so this can't be a prophesy about the Babylonian exile. It has had no obvious past fulfillment.

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    1. I only have an opinion, but there are some better interpretations of that verse, already, that show that the reference to "woman" is actually supposed to be an older translation of "fire." Try reading through that chapter, again, after recognizing that what he saw had the dimensions of a nuclear missile, a nuclear-sized payload, a lead cover shielding that fire, and was being carried through the air toward a place currently in the prophetic crosshairs. And take a look at any of the old one-handled scrolls . . . they look like missiles.

      Nuclear detonations are the curse that goes forth over all nations, and they consume timber and stone. He was describing what he saw but couldn't explain. And it surely was wickedness and iniquity. I also wonder if the verse talking about "cutting off" according to what was on the side is a reference to national flags and the targeted enemy, but can't really say confidently, of course.

      What I can say more confidently, coming from an aviation background, is that a stork is a pretty apt description of a strategic bomber. Bombers take off, fly, and land more slowly than other military aircraft . . . which necessitates a straighter-edged wing for low-speed lift. And they also carry much more weight, necessitating a longer and thinner profile that somewhat mirrors the fuselage. Picture a cross-shape from below. Whereas a fighter's tendency is to have a shorter wingspan, but with more area relative to the fuselage. Picture a leaf-shape from below. Honestly, this was one of the first things that drew my attention to the possibility. I really can't think of a more perfect bird for him to have described.

      I am not the one who put all of that together, but I altogether believe it to be the most likely interpretation.

      Jeremy

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    2. If you accept that Zechariah is describing a nuclear missile, it's still headed towards Shinar. There's nothing of note to blow up there today. There would have to be something built there worth destroying.

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    5. I would say that there's quite a bit there to blow up. Shinar was/is an entire "land."

      Type it into your own search engine, and you'll probably get some broad maps describing the southern Tigris and Euphrates. Or modern day Iraq. Or "southern Mesopotamia." So, it's certainly inhabited, relevant, and a focal point for strategic discussion.

      I'm not saying you're wrong. I simply don't know what will, or won't, be built in the future. But given the time left, I have my doubts. I haven't seen any Biblically significant cities spring up in my lifetime, and I don't expect to with the time that I have left.

      Maybe I'm biased, though. I grew up in a small, never-changing town.

      Once, the TV show "X- Files" used our town name as a caption at the bottom of the screen. They were pretending to be on location as part of the plot. But we knew they weren't actually visiting us because they filmed the cast using a payphone there, and we didn't have one at the time. Lol

      So, yeah. The truth is out there. I just don't know who has it.

      Jeremy

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    6. Thanks Joe - I agree, as I've argued for before here. But I won't rehash that... much! : ) I know people have different opinions on this and I'm sure Babylon does have multiple applications (and I like others would argue that Rev 17 is religious while 18 is commercial), but Zechariah 5:5-11 has always been important to me as well and it would just be like the enemy to return things back to the original location, where he started it with Nimrod and the tower of Babel, for the final end time showdown! That is the ultimate fulfillment I believe.

      Jeremy, I would be interested why you think 'Woman' in Zech 5:7 means 'fire'. It is:
      H802 "A feminine noun meaning woman, wife, or female. The origin of this word has been recorded in Gen 2:23, where Adam said, "She shall be called Woman (’iššāh [H802]), because she was taken out of Man."

      And the point is that this wicked woman is taken back to the land of Shinar (Babylon) to build a house/temple/palace for her there. This hasn't been fulfilled yet and will be.

      Anyway, wasn't even going to comment but a friend emailed me the following discussion today between James Kaddis and Andy Woods about how Iraq (where Babylon was) is now building a massive port for 'global trade', 'to make Iraq a Logistics Superpower'- so throwing this into the mix for those interested.

      https://youtu.be/4HNrKGzBmTs?si=EuthU9Ww870cl2RV

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  10. I just want to make 2 short points. 1) When you see these things begin to happen! It's pretty clear that THINGS are happening more and more closely together, like birth pangs. We are to be ready, make sure we have enough oil for our lamps, don't let out lights go out. 2) as far as prophesy, a lot of the prophesies in the Old Testament seem pretty cut and dried, to us, BUT they seem to have echos, it happened for sure, but maybe something like that happened again, and maybe it could come to a full conclusion later. It's a mystery and a warning, stay awake, stay in touch with His word, and Be ready. Pinning down the time isn't important, obeying His commandments until then IS!
    Thanks for your insights, love your articles and your open mind. Whenever I hear someone say, "this is the way it is," I just think, whatever.

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  11. Hello elgordo,

    I have always tried to be very open and honest about my intended points. I know what I know, and I don't try to pretend to know what I don't. In this case, I do NOT know if anything large and prophetically significant will be built in the Middle East to precipitate these things. I respect what Joe Peebles is saying, and I see these discussions more as conversation, and less as argument.

    Having said that, you've asked a question that I am wholly unqualified to answer. As I said, above, the woman/fire translation issue was not my discovery or argument to begin with. And I'm not saying that I understand ancient Hebrew or its end-times portent. And, as I don't remember the original source discussion on this topic, I resorted to another basic search online.

    There appear to be several possibilities. It is possible that H802 "woman" is maybe not synonymous with, but closely related to, H801 "fire" or "offering by fire." But it is also possible that the two are interchangeable, as I've read that both were the same exact word before modern Hebrew added punctuation. So . . . it is possible that the only way to truly understand the Zechariah passage is to read it in context. And how are we to do that?

    Me, personally? I see the "fire" fitting far better than the "woman." I don't often assume any woman to be contained in a basket with a leaden lid. Yet an ephah of uranium would make sense. But it is tricky, because you have to keep an open mind, too. Real ignorance would be shutting down a potential lead with insufficient evidence. And even though I lean "fire," I don't want to exclude anything yet. It is technically possible that it's a reference to the "whore" of Babylon . . . or Isis . . . or whatever.

    But to add something more useful to your answer, I'll include a link or two. Maybe they'll add some enlightenment. I wish that I could be more helpful, as it appears to be a provocative lead-in to something deeper. I wish I had more time!

    I find the last link to be particularly intriguing, because it seems that there really is some kind of prophetic "echo" there, as Roy Henry spoke to. But that's a rabbit hole that deserves very careful attention.

    Jeremy

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h801/kjv/wlc/0-1/
    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h802/kjv/wlc/0-1/

    https://bhebrew.biblicalhumanities.org/viewtopic.php?t=704

    https://natsab.com/2021/06/27/woman-sacrifice-fire-they-are-related/

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    1. Years ago, we visited a Dead Sea Scrolls exhibition in Indianapolis. Frank Seekins, author of Hebrew Word Pictures, was there and gave a lecture on the marvels of the Hebrew language. His subject of the day was the close relationship between women and fire. I think King Solomon mentioned that embracing the wrong woman was like taking fire to your bosom. If he didn’t, he should’ve.

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  12. NISSAN 10

    It's the day of the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem. How fitting it is that tonight the moon and Regulus (king star) will be in conjunction.

    Maranatha!

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  13. It was in April of 1775 that Paul Revere made his famous “midnight ride”. And like Paul Revere, we too must be “ready to ride” and shout, JESUS IS COMING! JESUS IS COMING! JESUS IS COMING!

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  14. You know, sometimes it takes me a long while to connect the dots. There's almost too much going on, prophetically, to really see the picture in its entirety. I have to keep searching and rehashing.

    I like to make sure that I review a matter thoroughly, if I can, when I'm talking to others about prophetic happenings and probabilities and such. You know what I mean. I don't want to leave anything unsaid or unsubstantiated.

    But today, I think I found something pretty BIG. Well, to me anyway.

    Just this morning, I was listening to a video about what humans could do to prevent an apocalyptic asteroid strike, along the lines of Apophis, and the conclusion was simple. If it's on short notice, and it almost always is, we're pretty much stuck with launching nuclear weapons at it. Nothing else really works, and there's NO way that we, as a population, would let it happen without taking that last shot. Literally. In other words, we live in a world that can only react, and nuclear weapons will ALWAYS be front and center with a Near Earth Object collision.

    Not only have you already heard me speak about Apophis as Wormwood, but I've also pointed out that I believe the radiation from this unsuccessful tactical strike will become the nuclear fallout that causes the bitterness which poisons the Earth during the Trumpet Judgments.

    That part you probably already know. And maybe you remember that small group of folks out there who claimed that the Chernobyl meltdown was the Wormwood event in the Bible, because that's what Chernobyl means. "Wormwood." I do not believe that at all. And there is simply no way that it fits the Biblical narrative, as I've argued several times.

    But it wasn't until this morning that it really hit me. It was a harbinger all along! We were warned about what the bitterness would be! I focused so much on refuting the nuclear meltdown that I didn't see the message. Chernobyl was NOT Wormwood, but God allowed that name to keep its place geographically. . . as a clue to what causes the waters to become bitter with the Revelation trumpet.

    I never once saw the 1980's disaster as a warning and explanation. I have to believe it was there on purpose. A simple name left to draw a close connection over 40 years later.

    Maybe.

    If Tom Horn was right when he said that Apophis could impact with the force of the entire planet's stock of nuclear weapons, or with the equivalent of 65,000 Hiroshima bombs, then adding massive radiation to that catastrophe would make it a true Trumpet of Judgment. And if he's right that it will impact in the Pacific, off the western coast of the US and Mexico, then it will certainly bring total devastation to the mantle and crust in the midst of the Ring of Fire. And that brings me to my biggest personal revelation of the day . . .

    (continued below)

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    1. So far, all of the first four trumpets can be explained by fairly natural means . . . a "star" which shares the same Greek root translation as an "asteroid" will cause the entire series of events. An incoming debris field, then two large mountain strikes, and then more impact debris that blots out the sky.

      But . . . might it also cause such a deep fracture in the earth (around the Ring of Fire) that it brings about the Fifth Trumpet Judgment? Is another piece of the broken "star" given the key to opening the abyss physically?

      And is it possible that the Sixth Trumpet also releases the four Angels by the Euphrates in similar manner? After all, I believe it's the book of Enoch that talks about the Fallen Angels being held prisoner by God . . . temporarily in Tartarus . . . the deepest level of Hell. In other words, underground, physically?

      And . . . might all of this help to verify that Apophis IS Wormwood?

      I offer up for debate this connection:

      That Apophis is the Egyptian DESTROYER God. Sometimes depicted as a serpent and sometimes depicted as a dragon, he is the embodiment of CHAOS.

      That the Greek god Apollo was also a "pure" and "bright" star . . . in this case, the "SUN." And that he is specifically referenced by John during the Fifth Trumpet of Revelation by his moniker "Apollyon" which was used in Greek to mimic "the Destroyer." That he was an "averter of evil" who "threatened from a distance." And that the Cult of Apollo used the symbol of the Locust (like those released from the pit.)

      (I could probably add that there is another group of potentially hazardous near-Earth asteroids named after him. The Apollo Asteroids. But I'll try to stay on point.)

      That John specifically wanted to point to their god Apollo in order to call out the Roman emperors and citizens for their brazen and cultish evil.

      And in Revelation 9, talking about the Fifth Trumpet Judgment, John specifically draws attention to the "star" given the keys to the abyss . . . that hole in the earth so large that smoke rises from it like a "gigantic furnace."

      But this is what really intrigues me, today . . .

      That the Greeks also had a god who was a DESTROYER. A god who was "destroyed" by this same Apollyon/Apollo. And this god was known as Python. Supposedly born from the slime left after Noah's Flood, Python was also a force of CHAOS . . . sometimes depicted as a serpent and sometimes depicted as a dragon. And, according to the Greeks, after his defeat by Apollo, he was left to live at the very center of the earth. I can only assume that he is still there and waiting for a tectonic release.

      There is simply too much common ground here between the Greek mythology, the descriptions by John in the Bible, and the exact same CHAOS and DESTROYER god . . . both snake and dragon . . . bearing down on us in 4 years and 4 days. Friday the 13th of April, 2029.

      Python IS Apophis? And Apollyon (Apollo) comes back in Revelation 9 with the keys to that same abyss where Python is held?

      Is this a repeat of the same fight they had after the Flood? The one the Greeks talked about? Angels fighting in the sky above Mount Olympus? The same fight where Michael hurls the serpent to the Earth in Revelation 12?

      Before he passed away, Tom Horn made it clear, in his vision, that he saw the asteroid from below as a serpent and dragon, both. Is this the same Red Dragon?

      Jeremy

      P.S. Further food for thought . . .

      Is it a coincidence that the SUN (Apollo) is becoming apocalyptically active right now, while the magnetic field is weakening catastrophically? Maybe the shackles of Tartarus are also weakening?

      But I think, at some point, I have to stop typing! LOL

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    2. Wow, Jeremy! I think it all makes sense! But I admit, I'm glad I won't be here when those days come! Maranatha, King Jesus!

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    3. And Apophis, Python, Apollo, the Trumpets, and the Red Dragon that is cast down . . . they all come together at Revelation 12? The MIDPOINT of the Tribulation? Almost exactly 4 years from now?

      I need to think about this some more. My brain is starting to hurt.

      Jeremy

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    4. You're right, of course, Maranatha. I'm so thankful that we don't have to see it from a first-person perspective! Thank you, Jesus!

      Jeremy

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  16. So, I had time to put a few more minutes into this, and I thought maybe I should add a few thoughts for clarity. Nothing outrageous, really.

    First, it needs to be said that Apophis, if it is indeed Wormwood, would need to be responsible for creating at least 2 large "mountains" in order to fulfill the 2nd and 3rd Trumpet Judgments. And one of those would need to strike the seas. And there are any number of ways this could happen. A binary asteroid, a broken asteroid, kicked up debris, etc. For all I know, it could bring along a piece of the moon on its journey. Although that seems the most ludicrous, by far. But my point is that I simply can't know exactly HOW it looks, practically speaking. And yet, the more I consider it, the more I am convinced that this asteroid is the direct cause of the first 5 or 6 of the Trumpet Judgments. It has been given the keys, if you will, to more than we probably realized.

    Second, and similarly, there are a number of ways that radiation can become the "bitterness" at the heart of the Wormwood Trumpet. Failed nuclear weapons seem obvious. But what about other obvious candidates . . . the Azovmena prophecy makes it clear that any asteroid hitting the United States will be likely to spread a residual radioactive cloud. And even secular scientists admit that Apophis is very likely to destroy a significant number of our low-orbit satellites; many of which are plutonium or uranium powered. There are more than we know, I bet. But, again, I can't know exactly what it looks like.

    Third, it has been said that the US Space Force was created with the not-so-express intent of stopping a near-Earth asteroid threat. But since I'm not currently masquerading as one of the elite, I wouldn't know that for sure. I also wouldn't know about all of the world-wide attempts to dig national bunker systems and underground lairs and evil hideouts. I can't know all of that. But I do know that the Bible predicts all of that. And I have my own personal suspicions as well. I live near several "top secret" bunker systems. And flying out of the new Denver airport on many occasions has opened my eyes to the rumors and possibilities. But you can google that on your own.

    Fourth, as a summation, I think I made it clear that I believe that 99942 Apophis was named that because Apophis and Python are both explicitly obvious references to the Destroyer and Chaos creator that we know as Satan. Both dragon-like and serpent-like, Mister 666 is allowed to have his 42 months of outright rule and persecution. And it is the Revelation 9 mention of Apollyon which clues us into this Apophis-Python connection. Seeing the Red Dragon cast down in Revelation 12 is somehow an echo, recreation, or future playing-out of what we may have seen before in these two characters. And it might be seen again at the midpoint. I don't fully understand this.

    Fifth, there is some interesting characterization behind the god Apollo. Too much to go into right now. But he is known by other names such as the "herdsman" and "shepherd." As I said before, he is the "averter of evil" who "threatens from a distance." A pure "star" god who seems very angelic, and even almost Christ-like, being shown almost synonymously with the "sun/son." NOT to say that he is our Lord, of course, but that he is a curious figure that I do not fully understand.

    And sixth . . . I think it's pretty clear that I am NOT claiming to know future events outside what we've been told in the Bible. But, just in case . . . I do NOT know future events outside what I've been told in the Bible. I just really enjoy this puzzle that the Lord has set before us. And I feel confident that the people in my life have gained perspective as a result of my own search for it. For that, alone, I am thankful for the prophetic interpretations and fellowship that we share. And as much as I fear false prophecy, I am far more frightened by the idea of NOT watching.

    Jeremy

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    1. Jeremy, I really appreciate your comment about fearing not watching more than fearing speculation. In a strange way, it makes me think of folks sitting on the bench at a ballgame—pinning their hopes for joy on the men on the court who are doing all the work, though failing to get the ball in the basket from time to time. Half the crowd goes home disgruntled and resentful.
      We all need to be engaged and expectant, not critical of those fully in the game playing their hearts out.

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  17. Oil . . . check.
    Lamp . . . check.
    Willing spirit . . . check.

    Ready for takeoff in 2025.

    But . . . still . . . waiting . . . for . . . my . . . clearance . . .

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  18. I'd like to introduce a new (but strange) possibility:

    Hear me out.
    What if there's a way it can be literal Babylon, in literal Shinar, and the time of it all is also near (aka no time-bloat). This way would also marry it to the UFO/Alien narrative.

    What if....full-disclosure is right around the corner. Our alien brothers (Fallen Ones) introduce themselves right at the pinnacle of, or prior to WW3 breaking out. One of their ways to establish themselves as our friends is to gift us a city. This city descends from the sky, and is 'New Babylon'. This is Satan's way of jumping ahead of God with a counterfeit, as he is known to do. He knows eventually God will do this with 'New Jerusalem' so he prepares his version. Imagine a large, 2 mile-wide mother ship descending down from the heavens, its sides fall off, and therein lies a city.

    Our alien brothers gift us this city, right in the middle of the 'Old World' (Middle East) and it just so happens to go to literal Shinar. Or, perhaps somewhere on a sea in the Middle East. Shoot, what if it's just outside of Israel (and is close to wherever the Garden of Eden was--you get my point).

    This would be our alien brothers' gift to us, their Embassy if you will. Could this be the fulfillment of Zechariah 5: 5-11?

    All throughout the Old Testament, its a story of 2 cities. Jerusalem and Babylon.

    We'll get a new Jerusalem after the Millennium. But Satan offers us a new Babylon *before* the Millennium. What a deal! Furthering this parallel, Babylon and Jerusalem are often represented as women. It's a woman mentioned in Zechariah 5:7, with unclean angels carrying her to place her in Shinar. Fascinating to consider.

    We know things are going to get supernatural during the 70th Week. And perhaps just before it. So why not start things off with a bang, really sell the lie if you're Satan.

    Weird theory, I know, but it's fascinating (and fun) to consider.

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    1. The problem with a literal fulfillment in literal Iraq (Babylon) is that Iraq is a poor, stricken country which plays no role that could be envisioned as leading the end times global economy and culture. Let's bring Isaiah 14 into this as well, which I believe is a prophetic picture of the future Antichrist (King of Babylon):

      The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
      the scepter of the rulers,
      6 which in anger struck down peoples
      with unceasing blows,
      and in fury subdued nations
      with relentless aggression.

      No Iraqi or Muslim leader in the Middle East, in my opinion, has the global clout/wherewithal to be "the scepter of the rulers". Why theorize about a new Babylon in the Middle East when the centers of power are clearly elsewhere? Jeremiah 50 and 51 call the end times Babylon the "hammer of the whole earth". Who is the current scepter of the rulers/hammer of the Earth? Which nation currently has a global array of hundreds of military bases? Would a conservative Muslim nation create a mood of greed/luxury/fornication like a modern day Western nation would? Those are poor, dusty nations with few resources, little power and very repressive as well.

      The Antichrist won't be a Muslim and the end times Babylon won't be in Iraq, as I see it. Remember 2 Thessalonians 2: the prophetic picture of the end times won't be evident to most people when literal fulfillments occur, because this stuff plays out as a "strong delusion".

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    2. Keeping my response relevant to my theory I proposed, any Iraqi or Muslim leader *would* become the center of it all if they received the fallen ones' embassy city from the heavens. Life as we'd know it would change; it'd be an enormous deception.

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    3. SquirrelNutkins,

      I always enjoy the different theories, notwithstanding those which blatantly contradict reality and prophecy. So, I am receptive to your idea, even though I can't see that happening.

      If I had any input to offer, it would be this . . . that our God has gone above and beyond to allow the events that shape our world and timeline to be almost 100% natural . . . or at least to have that appearance or possibility. Apart from the direct actions of creation and conclusion, and his own personal interaction with the characters, we don't really see examples in the Scripture of him allowing the supernatural where it's not needed.

      I'm not saying that your ideas don't hold merit, or that they're impossible. But I am saying that on a spectrum of plausibility, it's not really necessary to allow a full-on "alien" interaction from above. What I mean is, that while the Alien Deception may have serious implication in the future, I doubt it needs to go all the way to theatrical production.

      As I say below, consider your ideas and mine together. We have a legitimately world-recognized planetary threat already in the news. It is real, and it is coming. Now, imagine a world where the beast system owns this fact out loud, and give some latitude to the events which we already KNOW will happen. The USA is prophetically forecast to become a non-player, and the Christian count decreases significantly with the Rapture/destruction/whatever. World War 3 is bound to come on some slightly smaller scale than most anticipate . . . a limited nuclear engagement or two, some Ezekiel invasion stuff, and widespread regional conflict.

      And then, at the point of Apophis revelation, that same beast system has everyone deceived into working together, owing to the AC's supposed knowledge or control of the situation. For a short few years, he moves the world to a new regional focus, and he grandstands around with practical powers and signs and wonders that may just put him into a new temple, making new gestures, at the same moment that Apophis comes.

      In other words, maybe consider replacing the "mothership" in your theory with some form of Middle-East-centric planetary focus on the real and obvious thing that is already descending on us from space. How do you see that possibility?

      Truth be told, I can't say anything with certainty. Joe Peebles, for example, may be right when he speaks above about someone carrying a renewed Ishtar or something into Babylon. And you may be right about your close encounter of the third kind. But I have doubts on those primarily because we can pretty much always achieve the desired effect and prophecy fulfillment without resorting to the ancient or future SUPERnatural.

      I hope that you, and Joe, and everyone else, can hear my heart on this. I'm aiming for a scale of plausibility; not trying to poo-poo on anyone's input. In my case, while the clear meaning or explanation behind my guesses may be supernatural and sometimes beyond understanding . . . like the Greek god or the symbolic picture . . . the action, itself, is confined to real and everyday fulfillment. And even if you don't like my interpretations of the who's, why's, when's, and where's, I don't think anyone could argue coherently with the what's and how's. The asteroid, for example, is real. And it is coming. And it can, for a moment, draw the world into a satanic, common purpose that may very well be engineered by this 666 guy's deception.

      In other words, what if your city is real, kind of? But what if it was smaller, and looked like a rock? Could we achieve the same effect with that?

      Jeremy

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    4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVdnN4pWn08

      Start at 4:27 to see the global cooperation I'm talking about . . . and the billions of lives or tribulation years in simulation. But don't trust the graphical trajectories in the different scenes. They're not portrayed very well.

      And just to move closer to what Joe and Squirrel are proposing . . . what if we were to evacuate some of the USA to the Middle East . . . maybe the Shinar region or so? And what if a large plane were to carry the Statue of Liberty with it? After all, it was originally conceived as the Babylonian goddess Ishtar.

      "According to some sources, the Statue of Liberty is a replica of the Babylonian goddess Ishtar, the Mother of Harlots and the goddess of Freedom/Liberty. The statue was created by a Freemason who wanted to honor a Masonic doctrine that dates back to before Nimrod. Ishtar was known as Astarte in the Middle East and was worshipped as the goddess of love and fertility. Prostitution was part of her religious practices, which is why she was known as the Mother of Harlots."

      Would that work for everyone? We build a city of refugees and national "treasures" in a lower-than-average-density area in lower Iraq, owing to our significant familiarity with the region over the last 25 years. Maybe that's what the Army was working on the whole time!

      Sorry. That's not even funny, given the personal and national costs paid by pretty much everyone in the world.

      Jeremy

      Delete
    5. Babylon coming as a futuristic megacity from the dark side of the heavenly realms where satan and his demons have their command center, is a very plausible scenario. In many occult-inspired science fiction movies such as Star trek, Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica you see bizarre looking cities with creepy sky scrapers and creepy space ships.

      Delete
  19. Cy and Cry,

    I thank you for your kind words. You reminded me of something very important that I sometimes forget. If we picture these times as our own Escape from Pharoah moment, then I need to be more focused on helping my brothers and sisters through the waters, and perhaps slightly less focused on explaining what made the waters part to our sides. I tend to think that explaining the event can help to move the crowd along and instill confidence, but I have two arms for a reason, and I need to make sure that there's a brother and sister in each one, too.

    I can't just sit and wait for takeoff. I need to get back to helping someone today.

    Having said that, I am also reminded that we need NOT fear. Every single member of our group WILL get through the waters. We are made unstoppable by Jesus.

    Some more BIG stuff . . .

    There is little doubt that John the Revelator was referring to Apollo/Apollon when he wrote the name Apollyon. By adding the Y to the name, he also adds a direct reference to a "destroyer" personae. And by adding the locusts to the text, and the keys to an abyss, he is also pretty clearly indicating the Greek god Apollo. It was Apollo with a locust cult following, and it was Apollo whose most famous act, in "destroyer" personae, was to conquer Python (Egyptian Apophis?) and leave him at the bottom of a deep pit prison. An abyss.

    This week, I've come across two Potentially Hazardous near-Earth Asteroids in the Apollo Asteroid class that approach in 2027 and 2028 . . . 2001 WN5 and 1999 AN-10. Both are larger than Apophis but supposed to stay at least one-half of a lunar distance away. Interestingly, I did not realize that the Chelyabinsk asteroid that made the news years ago was also an Apollo class object. That rock legitimately hurt something like 1,500 people!

    But it's NOT these two you should be looking at.

    CHECK THIS OUT . . .

    (continued below)

    ReplyDelete
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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. 99942 Apophis meets every expectation for catastrophe. The prophetic warning around it. The name that we Christians recognize as satanic, but the rest of the world thinks is from an alien on a TV show (Stargate SG-1.) The numerology of it, with the upside down 666 and 42 months of Tribulation left, exactly, after impact. The size of it (capable of wrecking exactly 1/3 of the earth). And on and on. It's even considered an Aten-class asteroid . . . which is a direct reference to Egyptian mythology's version of Sun worship . . . remember Apollo's connection to the Sun?

      Just consider all that we've discussed for these last few years.

      If I were to choose a star (Greek "Aster" as in "asteroid") to become the asteroid that causes 5 or 6 of the Trumpet Judgments, I would prophetically want it to pass somewhere near Israel before impact, for greatest psychological effect. And I would want it to be visible with the naked eye in the evening or early night, because the Jews focus so much on the Lunar sky. And I would want it to impact in the western hemisphere, because I need the destruction to happen far away from the Middle East. And preferably in the daytime, since the Gentiles worship the Sun so often. And I would want it to land on the Mystery Babylon candidate, America, since that's what where two separate Sun eclipses just crossed in 7-year "X" fashion. And I would even make the asteroid visit on 7-year cycles. And land on Friday the 13th for the secular crowd. And . . .

      You are all more than aware that I could keep going. But I'll stop here with just this one actual NASA video. I can't say whether or not Tom Horn watched it five years ago, but I doubt it, since he had already had his vision and a book, I think.

      Watch this!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PLIAgXjV9o

      The red track enters from the right. And note that the "closest approach" is where the line turns Gray momentarily over the Atlantic Ocean. And then the caption says that Apophis enters daylight and becomes invisible again . . . it's following the Sun! . . . leaving a lot of doubt as to where the "closest approach" really is. But putting it back into daylight either way.

      Ask yourself a few questions. From that "closest approach" Gray spot in the South Atlantic Ocean, what would happen if the Earth's gravity were too much for the dirt/metal rock to bear? Could it break up into 2 or 3 large pieces?

      As a matter of fact, ask yourself one more HUGE question. Since the earth's magnetic field is often touted as protection from incoming space threats, is it a coincidence that the single biggest hole in our planet's magnetosphere is the South Atlantic Anomaly in almost the exact same spot?

      In other words, that Gray spot is the exact point of maximum gravity and minimum magnetic protection. It is the Earth's Achilles heel in 2028, and it meets ALL the ideal traits for prophetic fulfillment.

      And one last consideration. Look at all of this from Israel's point of view, since an Apophis impact could fulfill the midpoint of Jacob's Trouble and Daniel's 70th week . . .

      The small debris breaks off the asteroid first . . . over the Middle East and northern Africa . . . the First Trumpet of fire and hail.

      The first big piece breaks off and hits the Atlantic Ocean . . . the Second Trumpet that Israel sees.

      The second big piece breaks off and hits America, which may have already been nuked according to the Azovmena prophecy . . . and this spreads Wormwood radiation . . . the Third Trumpet.

      The land impact blots out what's left to see in the sun and sky, from Israel's perspective . . . remember, it's already late evening or night-time, there . . . the Fourth Trumpet.

      The remainder of Apophis hits the Pacific Ocean . . . which already has the deepest trenches on the planet. And the Ring of Fire volcanism. And some of the most destructive earthquake potential. And the keys to the ABYSS are handed over . . . the Fifth Trumpet.

      I'm not saying anything with certainty. I simply don't know. But I'm not blind, either. And I am watching.

      Jeremy

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    3. Is someone from NASA just very America-centric . . . or are they telling us something?

      Note where the red track ends . . . off the west coast of the US and in the Pacific . . . just as Tom Horn insisted when God gave him the name Apophis in his vision.

      Jeremy

      Delete
    4. I imagine that it will look very fiery red and "dragony" after sunset. And it will certainly be "cast down" to the earth from Israel's perspective. Time to flee to the eastern wilderness of Revelation 12?

      Jeremy

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    5. And for those of you talking AntiChrist and Babylon above, how does all of this Apophis stuff change that for you, if all that's left behind is a Muslim-majority world, and everyone else is severely compromised and displaced?

      Jeremy

      Delete
    6. If I were China and Russia, I think I'd find myself moving towards Israel soon after the tidal waves and earthquakes and volcanoes started coming at me from the east. I'd need protection, and sunlight for food, and resources. Time to take a spoil?

      Honestly, I'm nowhere near ready to try to figure out where Ezekiel 38 factors into this. LOL

      Jeremy

      Delete
    7. (One small correction above . . . "it is the Earth's Achilles heel" in 2029 . . . not 2028.)

      And not to mix my prophecies here, but if I were a high-ranking official in the USA, and I had even the remotest notion of what was about to happen to us with Apophis, how would that affect my decision-making on the use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine? I have exactly 4 years left to meddle with Europe and western Asia, because everywhere else is going to become fairly inconsequential.

      So, what does that mean for Ezekiel and Azovmena and the rest?

      Jeremy

      Delete
    8. If I were high-ranking in Russia, would I consider moving towards Israel BEFORE it was too late? And how would I view nuclear weapon usage against the USA as the clock counts down.

      Hmmmm.

      Jeremy

      Delete
    9. I'll try to stop talking now. I know I'm pushing my luck, and I apologize. But one last thing . . .

      They say they didn't discover Apophis until 2004 but, before that, there were two movies you probably remember . . . Armageddon and Deep Impact . . . that dealt with big asteroids.

      With a very appropriate name, Armageddon opens up with fire and hail-sized rocks hitting the US east coast. And then later on, the rocks hit eastern Asia.

      In Deep Impact, the asteroid is broken up into two large fragments. The first hitting the Atlantic Ocean off the USA's east coast. And the larger second piece slated to impact mainland America, before it's destroyed by the movie's heroes.

      These movies both started filming in 1997 . . . seven years before the 7-year-cycle Apophis asteroid was "officially" discovered. I'm not claiming anything at all. It's just an interesting coincidence.

      Jeremy

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    10. Freeze it at 0:39 to see Apophis and Earth collide.

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/time-lapse-orbit-animation-of-osiris-apex-s-epic-journey-to-asteroid-apophis/vi-AA1AaEb9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=30b252d782ec409ba5f1c9070569cbc9&ei=22#details

      Delete
    11. You should write a book...........Oh thats right you just did.

      Delete
  20. PESACH/PALM SUNDAY

    I pray that you and yours enjoyed a blessed Passover/Palm Sunday. I ran across an interesting report from solar weather reporter Dr Tamitha Skov; that twin filaments have been launched from the Sun while in the Earth strike-zone last night.

    Quoting, Tamitha Skov,

    "These #solarstorms will likely travel slowly, but they are dense and thus could pack a decent punch!"

    Arrival of these storms could be late April 15 to early on the morning of April 16. The morning of Wednesday, April 16 is the morning of the third day after Passover.

    Signs in the heavens?!

    Maranatha!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, Pastor Rich, for a ray of light in the forecast! Pun intended. Every hope-filled moment is appreciated.

      Jeremy

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    2. Anytime, it's my pleasure, and may we always remember,

      1 Now faith is the assurance of things
      hoped for, the conviction of things not
      seen.

      (Hebrews 11:1 ESV)

      ...and,

      17 So faith comes from hearing,
      and hearing through the Word of
      Christ.

      18 But I ask, have they not heard?
      Indeed they have, for "Their voice
      has gone out to all the earth, and
      their words to the ends of the world."

      (Romans 10:17-18 ESV)


      ...nods to (Psalm 19:3-4). We run on hope-filled moments!

      Keep the faith!

      Delete
  21. I'm amazed at all this, "Talk....Talk....Talk....Talk...."
    And not one clue as to the Where, When, How and Why of the Rapture of the Body of Christ "The Church"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you would like the date suggested by the 2025 model I would be happy to offer it.

      Delete
    2. Gee whiz, Gregg. That's very kind of you, but I couldn't think of a better place to speak up than a forum. I'm sorry for wasting your time.

      As I see it, the Tribulation and Second Coming are timed and predictable, on at least some scale. The Rapture is not. It is imminent and sign-less, as the Bible teaches it.

      I don't do uninformed guesses. But I'm trying my best, here, so I suppose I'll try to help you, until someone else comes along with all the answers you need.

      Where: everywhere
      When: before the Tribulation, which I'm working on
      How: the power and promise of Jesus' atoning blood
      Why: because He loves you (and so do we)

      And if I've got this all wrong, and it's you who has the date of the Rapture, please do tell. You have an eager audience waiting for your research.

      Jeremy

      Delete
  22. Sure, Pastor Rich offer it up!

    And Jeremy, Paul taught the early converts the Where, When, How and Why of the Rapture of the Body of Christ "The Church"
    The covenant of Grace.
    But no one seems to want to understand that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Gregg,

      I can show you an entire forum of people who "seem to want to understand that." But you have only guesses as to the timing of the Rapture. And if I'm wrong, then give us the "when." But say something specific, and use reason, or don't go critiquing others when they offer more. We don't need more of that useless "substance and shadow" stuff. I'd say everyone on this site is educated enough to know the who, where, why, and how. You're not the only Christian.

      But if you understand the exact time of the Rapture then help us out. You should've stepped in a long time ago, and saved my keyboard from utter abuse. Lol. Or your fellow brothers and sisters from my over-zealous discoveries.

      You won't do it, though, because you don't know any more than anyone else. You're just giving generalities, favorite feasts, seasons, and patterns. The same as us, but with less frequent, and dare I say . . . relevant, input regarding today's events.

      This is a win-win for all of us. I do get offended by people mocking me and saying that I don't have a clue, but I don't ever take it personally when I am legitimately wrong. Being wrong helps get us closer to being right.

      Now, please prove me wrong! And let everyone else be the judge of your date and your timeline. At least, that's what I've been trying to do.

      I truly don't mind a conversation or argument supported by specific fact or theory. Do you have one?

      And I apologize for not showing more grace, here, but it's pretty lame of you to always come after me like I'm naive, when you have nothing more useful to offer.

      Date or year, please? Give us just one piece of educated insight into the calendar. But then, why would you need Pastor Rich's if you had it already?

      Jeremy

      Delete
    2. Gregg,

      I considered deleting that last post, like I've done in the past with you.

      But I don't think I'm going to, anymore. You never, ever, ever argue my points, my information, or my conclusions, but always my character. And although I have an opinion on your character as well, I will take the higher road, and simply let your overflowing knowledge dazzle us all.

      Waiting patiently for a calendar date or year. And an original explanation for them.

      Jeremy

      Delete
    3. Offered up...

      The model for this year points to the third day of the 40th week of 2025 which is Tuesday, September 30; Erev Sukkot/Sukkot I at sunset in Jerusalem according to the Essene calendar. This corresponds the evening that begins Erev Yom Kippur on the civil calendar. It is further suggested that this year is a Jubilee year on the Essene calendar.

      Another feature of the 2025 model is the day count from R12S to the modeled Second Coming at Yom Kippur (Essene) in 2032. That day count is 5,555 days which has a midpoint this April 30/May 1. (Which so happens to be my birthday) That's not to say that it has anything to do with the Day; it was interesting along the way to counting days in the model.

      Another interesting find of 2025 is the coming September 7 blood moon on firstfruits of new oil (Essene). This will occur over Jerusalem and end at 11:55pm (local) with delta (peak) of the eclipse at 9:11pm (local). I cannot help but be reminded of the Parable of the Virgins and the coming of the Bridegroom at midnight and believe that event to be a sign. (Reminds me of you Lyn!) September 30 more closely aligns with being hidden on the day of trouble (70th week) found in Scripture with (Psalm 27:5) coming to mind; thus 9/30 being high watch for the Day. Highest of 2025, IMHO.

      The window of September 30 to October 2 are a window where the two witnesses could arrive as well as a host of other data points that are too much to go into at the moment. That would begin the 70th week and suggests no gap.

      A note to all: I started developing study models before the R12S as response to the question, can Biblical dates and day counts be understood in light of our calendar systems? If so, how and what do we find when we apply them to our calendars? For my part, I am fully satisfied with the answer I have found. Yes, you can find symmetry between Biblical dates and day counts and models that render Essene/Gregorian/Julian/Pharisee calendars in parallel and make Scriptural sense. The next question is, what do I do as a result of those findings? My answer has always been to keep hard at work encouraging the saints to keep faith and point the rest to Christ.

      It is to that end that I continue to work today. Keep watching, waiting, working and witnessing, encouraging the saints and pointing the rest to Christ,

      23 Let us hold fast the confession
      of our hope without wavering, for he
      who promised is faithful.

      24 And let us consider how to stir
      up one another to love and good
      works,

      25 not neglecting to meet together,
      as is the habit of some, but
      encouraging one another, and all
      the more as you see the Day drawing
      near.

      (Hebrews 10:23-25 ESV)


      That really says it all, doesn't it...

      All Glory to God,


      PR

      Delete
  23. Moin,

    There is a real difference between plausible and possible. I agree with you that anything is possible. But since we read in several Biblical and extra-Biblical places that satan and his angels are under us or around us, and actively at work, it is somewhat doubtful that he's off on the dark side of space. And citing Star Trek, Star Wars, or Battlestar Galactica is, in fact, citing science FICTION. Darth Vader is not probable. The Stargate Atlantis city is not real. (Atlantis was the Richat Structure in Africa.) And even the very, very few things in those shows that have become reality, have become reality through long and methodical human development. They haven't dropped down from space. I offer up cell phones as an example. (More on Star Trek "communicators" in a second.)

    In other words, you could be right, but future mega-cities from space is highly unlikely. Or, at least, it's never happened before and I wouldn't expect it to, and I don't read that anywhere in the Bible. But "mountains" hitting the Earth? I see that in several places. God gives us specific examples of that.

    But you do bring to mind one human-developed futuristic device that I think is very relevant. I have not seen one in person, yet, but I've seen at least 2 promo's for it . . . the AI-powered universal language translator. And this is a satanic development worth watching for . . . the exact and pointed undoing of God's handiwork at the Tower of Babel. Satan trying to bring us all back to a common and ungodly purpose.

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
  24. Jeremy

    Don't take it personal, I don't.

    For me the word of God is rooted in simplicity, already there waiting to be reviled.

    Lets start with:
    Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
    There is a whole study on the Jewish Feast days which are shadows of things to come for the Church.

    Matthew 12:38-40 The sign of the prophet Jonah is the sign of the Messiah for the Jews. And for us.

    Matthew 27:52 -53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

    Are also Jonah signs of the Messiah.

    1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    So we watch, the Jews and there dealings with there enemy's for that upcoming Peace treaty.
    As a chronometer as to when the Dead Rise First and go into Jerusalem.

    As for a Day of our departure, its 40 days after First Fruits "Ascension" day.

    Also a Jonah sign and shadow of the Messiah

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As I thought.

      You've offered us almost 2,000 year-old information in the world's most published book.

      You picked your favorite season based upon your interpretation of Paul. And you failed to make it relevant to today's events. Not one real-life connection. And, as always, instead of adding something of import to the discussion, you've decided to play it cool and aloof. Often critical, but never cooperative.

      More than 1,990 ascension days since Jesus left, and you have no working model for putting the next few into context? I have a vision of someone's caged tropical bird out there forever parroting "springtime, springtime."

      Give me a solid date on a calendar, Gregg, and you'll never have to read my long-winded books again! A little supporting evidence from this millennium would be a great start.

      Jeremy



      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. And just to clarify, I'm the one that said that the Rapture was imminent and sign-less. I've just spent years trying to build models that explain what we're seeing these days. And I've talked out my arguments for all to critique.

      You're the one who said that you knew the WHEN, when all others didn't seem to want to understand. It's time for you to step up and give useful input on today's happenings.

      Jeremy

      Delete
  25. Replies
    1. Thanks, Lyn!

      Now that's useful input on today's happenings.

      Jeremy

      Delete
    2. Thank YOU, Jeremy! Let the dominos topple!

      Delete
  26. Jeremy

    Just because you don't understand Paul's teaching to the early Church about the conclusion of the covenant of Grace, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist ready to be reviled at its proper time.

    Because we are in the general time frame for that event.

    You can't have "Peace and Safety" in the middle east with a radical Islam state of Iran, it has to change.

    The "peace maker" the current Hashemite King advocates a Jewish, Christian, Muslim culture.
    That can't happen as of yet something has to change and that change has to with Iran.
    That is what is happening on stage in the middle east.

    Israel doesn't have to make peace with them, there enemies are going to make peace with them!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On what basis do you conclude that I don't understand Paul's teaching?

      Jeremy

      Delete
    2. Well, by your response to me of what I just laid out.

      Delete
    3. By the way the Rapture in not imminent.

      It is a specific Day in time.

      That wrongful teaching of "can't know the day or hour" led everyone down a rabbet hole of nonsense.

      Delete
  27. Also, that "peace and safety" will usher in the days of Noah that Jesus talked about.
    All these pieces fit together, but one can't happen without the other.

    ReplyDelete
  28. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Okay, Gregg. Whatever.

    Blessings,

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
  30. High Watch Date for 2025 Offered up...

    [Bottom posting in addition to the inline post above]

    The model for this year points to the third day of the 40th week of 2025 which is Tuesday, September 30; Erev Sukkot/Sukkot I at sunset in Jerusalem according to the Essene calendar. This corresponds the evening that begins Erev Yom Kippur on the civil calendar. It is further suggested that this year is a Jubilee year on the Essene calendar.

    Another feature of the 2025 model is the day count from R12S to the modeled Second Coming at Yom Kippur (Essene) in 2032. That day count is 5,555 days which has a midpoint this April 30/May 1. (Which so happens to be my birthday) That's not to say that it has anything to do with the Day; it was interesting along the way to counting days in the model.

    Another interesting find of 2025 is the coming September 7 blood moon on firstfruits of new oil (Essene). This will occur over Jerusalem and end at 11:55pm (local) with delta (peak) of the eclipse at 9:11pm (local). I cannot help but be reminded of the Parable of the Virgins and the coming of the Bridegroom at midnight and believe that event to be a sign. (Reminds me of you Lyn!) September 30 more closely aligns with being hidden on the day of trouble (70th week) found in Scripture with (Psalm 27:5) coming to mind; thus 9/30 being high watch for the Day. Highest of 2025, IMHO.

    The window of September 30 to October 2 are a window where the two witnesses could arrive as well as a host of other data points that are too much to go into at the moment. That would begin the 70th week and suggests no gap.

    A note to all: I started developing study models before the R12S as response to the question, can Biblical dates and day counts be understood in light of our calendar systems? If so, how and what do we find when we apply them to our calendars? For my part, I am fully satisfied with the answer I have found. Yes, you can find symmetry between Biblical dates and day counts and models that render Essene/Gregorian/Julian/Pharisee calendars in parallel and make Scriptural sense. The next question is, what do I do as a result of those findings? My answer has always been to keep hard at work encouraging the saints to keep faith and point the rest to Christ.

    It is to that end that I continue to work today. Keep watching, waiting, working and witnessing, encouraging the saints and pointing the rest to Christ,

    23 Let us hold fast the confession
    of our hope without wavering, for he
    who promised is faithful.

    24 And let us consider how to stir
    up one another to love and good
    works,

    25 not neglecting to meet together,
    as is the habit of some, but
    encouraging one another, and all
    the more as you see the Day drawing
    near.

    (Hebrews 10:23-25 ESV)


    That really says it all, doesn't it...

    All Glory to God,


    PR

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, Brother, it is Lu Vega's theory I have been pointing to of late. This is the season I've been mentioning BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THE RAPTURE HAS TO BE ON A FEAST DAY NECESSARILY.

      Lu Vega has put forth his theory that the Rapture would happen in the same season as when Boaz and Ruth’s wedding occurred—when the wheat harvest would be concluding, and the grape harvest is beginning during the Feast of New Wine—perhaps on JULY 23.

      Your proposed date of September 30 would parallel what T. W. Tramm noted that Scripture seems to point to the end of Summer for the Rapture and that, “Biblically, summer begins at the vernal equinox in March and ends at the autumnal equinox in September”; HOWEVER, it is my hope that the Bride of Christ’s marriage will parallel that of Boaz and Ruth. The Scriptures tell us they married after the grain harvest was completed; and, therefore, might have been wed at the time of Tu B’Av. According to the Mishna, Tu B'Av was a joyous holiday in the days of the Temple in Jerusalem, marking the beginning of the grape harvest. Yom Kippur marked the end of the grape harvest. On both dates the unmarried girls of Jerusalem dressed in white garments, and went out to dance in the vineyards.

      SEE https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/tu-bav/:

      "There were no better (i.e. happier) days for the people of Israel than the Fifteenth of Av [Tu B'Av] and Yom Kippur, since on these days the daughters of Israel/Jerusalem go out dressed in white and dance in the vineyards. What were they saying: Young man, consider
      whom you choose (to be your wife)? (Ta’anit, Chapter 4)"

      All I know for sure, dear Brethren, is we are so VERY MUCH CLOSER to going Home--how I pray it is this Hebrew Year!

      Delete
    2. Thank you for that Lyn! The last ingathering in my 2025 model is suggested by the day counts from the end to the beginning. This is pegged on the return of Christ at Yom Kippur in 2032 on the Essene calendar which would be proper in light of His title and position as King/Priest/Prophet of the Order of Melchizedek. That day on the Pharisee (Civil) calendar is Sukkot VI and begins Hohsana Rabba at sunset with Hoshana Rabba being the next full day on the Pharisee (Civil) calendar (first day of the MK).

      My calendar studies are independent of other studies save that which is given through the Bible and Dead Sea Scrolls. My DSS studies are primarily through Biblefacts.org and the work of Drs Ken and Donita Johnson. That said, I think Aaron at God A Minute has had some great studies and is onto something concerning 2025. My studies agree but not to the point of a late Spring harpazo at Shavuot. As much as I agree that Pentecost is an enticing time to consider the RR, I don't see it this year in light of the data. Past data has suggested the RR for Shavuot in years past but not according to what I see this year.

      Again, going by the data that I see as a forecaster of sorts. None of this is, "Thus saith the Lord!" Not at all...just the data driven, prayerful observations of a watchman from his own original and continuing studies. In that way, I am hand-in-hand with you dear sister! We are so VERY MUCH CLOSER to going Home.

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